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In what way is Bill Gates or Musk a bad person?? Grouping them with McAfee is really kind of dumb...blasphemous really.

h0l0cube 6y ago
More to that, good and bad isn't necessarily immutable. Bill Gates was seemingly as callous at his anti-trust depositions as Zuckerberg, but I believe he's redeemed himself in his philanthropic contributions that have had real outcomes in some of the poorest part of the world. Blanket 'good' and 'bad' designations are often a little reductive for what are complicated human beings who do both 'good' and 'bad' things across their lifetimes.
- ojnabieoot 6y ago
  Bill Gates is substantially more wealthy now than he was when he left Microsoft. He is the only motherfucker on Earth who has continued to accumulate billions of dollars while pretending he is giving it all away. He could have done so much more but decided not to because he’s a selfish jerk. The fact that people on his payroll did a great deal of good work does not make Bill Gates a good person. Bill Gates is and always was and likely always will be a terrible person. I suppose it is refreshing that he has some conscience and isn’t an outright monster in every facet of his life. While it’s true that Bill Gates’s philanthropic efforts have salvaged his moral reputation, it is not true that he deserves it. A culture that didn’t worship billionaires would scorn him for the criminal and gluttonous dirtbag that he his. Anyone with his amount of wealth can’t pretend to be generous.
  - h0l0cube 6y ago
    I'm not sure I've received such a vitriolic reply, ever, on HN. You certainly are strongly persuaded that Bill Gates is evil. It's funny to think that in the 90s I really used to share your opinion with a similar zeal. > While it’s true that Bill Gates’s philanthropic efforts have salvaged his moral reputation, it is not true that he deserves it. When everyone has their own concept of what is moral, it can be hard do agree on 'moral desert'. But as I see it, he's poured money into eradicating polio, tuberculosis, malaria, and other diseases affecting poor nations. For polio in particular, this has culminated in total eradication for the entire South East Asian and African regions within the last decade. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-53887947 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-53887947 https://web.archive.org/web/20140327032034/http://www.searo.who.int/entity/immunization/topics/polio/eradication/sea-polio-free/en/ https://web.archive.org/web/20140327032034/http://www.searo.... The Bill and Melinda Gates foundation isn't perfect, and maybe has made a few missteps, and partnered with corporations of dubious nature, but overall it's money invested in improving the world that came from a place of generosity. Actions with real positive outcomes for the world, and motivated by good intentions, ought to shift our prejudices, as much as bad intentions.
fuzxi 6y ago
>In what way is Musk a bad person?? Publicly supporting the US-backed coup in Bolivia comes to mind. [1] [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20200725040621/https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1286866843307737088 https://web.archive.org/web/20200725040621/https://twitter.c...
ojnabieoot 6y ago
It’s a spectrum - Musk isn’t irredeemably terrible, but he’s shockingly callous about the well-being of his workers and, like Edison, despicably shameless about slapping his name on other people’s work. His recklessness on COVID is immoral, even if it stems from narcissism rather than an evil death cult. Bill Gates isn’t a psychopath like McAfee - and more to the point, unlike McAfee, he is rational. Bill Gates is also one of the worst economic criminals in American history.
- debaserab2 6y ago
  > Bill Gates is also one of the worst economic criminals in American history What? Why?
  - hackeraccount 6y ago
    I think the logic is that there's not way to have money coming into your control that isn't theft. If that's true the biggest economic criminal is the one with the most money.
- bluedevil2k 6y ago
  Yes, let's lump Gates in with the Enron crowd, Ebbers, Kozlowski, Bernie Madoff. (sarcasm). Your statement is ludicrous and sounds especially callous and shallow when you back it with...nothing. No facts or anything. I see your other comment was already flagged/deleted and called the "most vitriolic reply ever on HN", so I'm guessing your arguments are not always well thought out and reasonable and instead based on some deep internal hatred of a man who's done more to help people in 1 day than you'll do ever.
watwut 6y ago
Musk is bad person because of the way he treats people who hurt his ego. Making up pedophilia accusations is not cool. Also, the way he treata his workers and attributes himself achievements of others. Bill Gates, well, the way his imperium came to be was not allright. The war against competitors ans linux was too dirty and merits calling him bad person. And I dont even like linux much. It is not just what you do when you have power and can play lord. It is also what you do to competitors and how you treat those who don't bow to you.
nobodyandproud 6y ago
Have a quick read on the so-called robber barons. Many of the tactics of the era should sound very familiar, and many of the resulting social issues should also ring a bell. I’m personally dreading what the next several decades will bring. Edit: In case it isn’t clear, Gates is a lot like Andrew Carnegie or some of the other ruthless businessmen, some who later turned their wealth around and became great philanthropists. Some of the robber barons were miserable to the end (Larry Ellisons of the day?)
- bluedevil2k 6y ago
  I actually read the biographies of the 12 richest Americans in history a few years ago. The common thread across all these men - they never sold any part of their business. They bought out partners, bought out competitors, bought out suppliers. I wouldn’t call those activities evil. And I wouldn’t say any were miserable to the end.
  - nobodyandproud 6y ago
    I said “ruthless”, not “evil”. There is a difference. Individuals like Jay Gould crossed the lines to get his way (attempted kidnapping? bribery?). While others Russell Sage never gave his money for philanthropy (in his case, it was his second wife after he died). Likewise, John Osgood’s life was all about trying to make more money before he croaked. George Pullman, who controlled his own town and controlled the postal mail, prevented mail for his town from getting the through (it built up to rioting and striking). In fact virtually all were against unionization, though they took different approaches to head it off. And it took the Federal government to trust bust and create a genuine middle class. The details are what makes one scrupulous or not. More disturbingly, many of their ideas and approaches will be familiar today.
aussiegreenie 6y ago
Bill Gate constantly broke the law and even if his post-MS work is wonderful. He should have gone to jail. But American does not punish rich people.

More to that, good and bad isn't necessarily immutable. Bill Gates was seemingly as callous at his anti-trust depositions as Zuckerberg, but I believe he's redeemed himself in his philanthropic contributions that have had real outcomes in some of the poorest part of the world. Blanket 'good' and 'bad' designations are often a little reductive for what are complicated human beings who do both 'good' and 'bad' things across their lifetimes.

ojnabieoot 6y ago
Bill Gates is substantially more wealthy now than he was when he left Microsoft. He is the only motherfucker on Earth who has continued to accumulate billions of dollars while pretending he is giving it all away. He could have done so much more but decided not to because he’s a selfish jerk. The fact that people on his payroll did a great deal of good work does not make Bill Gates a good person. Bill Gates is and always was and likely always will be a terrible person. I suppose it is refreshing that he has some conscience and isn’t an outright monster in every facet of his life. While it’s true that Bill Gates’s philanthropic efforts have salvaged his moral reputation, it is not true that he deserves it. A culture that didn’t worship billionaires would scorn him for the criminal and gluttonous dirtbag that he his. Anyone with his amount of wealth can’t pretend to be generous.
- h0l0cube 6y ago
  I'm not sure I've received such a vitriolic reply, ever, on HN. You certainly are strongly persuaded that Bill Gates is evil. It's funny to think that in the 90s I really used to share your opinion with a similar zeal. > While it’s true that Bill Gates’s philanthropic efforts have salvaged his moral reputation, it is not true that he deserves it. When everyone has their own concept of what is moral, it can be hard do agree on 'moral desert'. But as I see it, he's poured money into eradicating polio, tuberculosis, malaria, and other diseases affecting poor nations. For polio in particular, this has culminated in total eradication for the entire South East Asian and African regions within the last decade. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-53887947 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-53887947 https://web.archive.org/web/20140327032034/http://www.searo.who.int/entity/immunization/topics/polio/eradication/sea-polio-free/en/ https://web.archive.org/web/20140327032034/http://www.searo.... The Bill and Melinda Gates foundation isn't perfect, and maybe has made a few missteps, and partnered with corporations of dubious nature, but overall it's money invested in improving the world that came from a place of generosity. Actions with real positive outcomes for the world, and motivated by good intentions, ought to shift our prejudices, as much as bad intentions.

fuzxi 6y ago

>In what way is Musk a bad person?? Publicly supporting the US-backed coup in Bolivia comes to mind. [1] [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20200725040621/https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1286866843307737088 https://web.archive.org/web/20200725040621/https://twitter.c...

ojnabieoot 6y ago

It’s a spectrum - Musk isn’t irredeemably terrible, but he’s shockingly callous about the well-being of his workers and, like Edison, despicably shameless about slapping his name on other people’s work. His recklessness on COVID is immoral, even if it stems from narcissism rather than an evil death cult. Bill Gates isn’t a psychopath like McAfee - and more to the point, unlike McAfee, he is rational. Bill Gates is also one of the worst economic criminals in American history.

debaserab2 6y ago
> Bill Gates is also one of the worst economic criminals in American history What? Why?
- hackeraccount 6y ago
  I think the logic is that there's not way to have money coming into your control that isn't theft. If that's true the biggest economic criminal is the one with the most money.
bluedevil2k 6y ago
Yes, let's lump Gates in with the Enron crowd, Ebbers, Kozlowski, Bernie Madoff. (sarcasm). Your statement is ludicrous and sounds especially callous and shallow when you back it with...nothing. No facts or anything. I see your other comment was already flagged/deleted and called the "most vitriolic reply ever on HN", so I'm guessing your arguments are not always well thought out and reasonable and instead based on some deep internal hatred of a man who's done more to help people in 1 day than you'll do ever.

watwut 6y ago

Musk is bad person because of the way he treats people who hurt his ego. Making up pedophilia accusations is not cool. Also, the way he treata his workers and attributes himself achievements of others. Bill Gates, well, the way his imperium came to be was not allright. The war against competitors ans linux was too dirty and merits calling him bad person. And I dont even like linux much. It is not just what you do when you have power and can play lord. It is also what you do to competitors and how you treat those who don't bow to you.

nobodyandproud 6y ago

Have a quick read on the so-called robber barons. Many of the tactics of the era should sound very familiar, and many of the resulting social issues should also ring a bell. I’m personally dreading what the next several decades will bring. Edit: In case it isn’t clear, Gates is a lot like Andrew Carnegie or some of the other ruthless businessmen, some who later turned their wealth around and became great philanthropists. Some of the robber barons were miserable to the end (Larry Ellisons of the day?)

bluedevil2k 6y ago
I actually read the biographies of the 12 richest Americans in history a few years ago. The common thread across all these men - they never sold any part of their business. They bought out partners, bought out competitors, bought out suppliers. I wouldn’t call those activities evil. And I wouldn’t say any were miserable to the end.
- nobodyandproud 6y ago
  I said “ruthless”, not “evil”. There is a difference. Individuals like Jay Gould crossed the lines to get his way (attempted kidnapping? bribery?). While others Russell Sage never gave his money for philanthropy (in his case, it was his second wife after he died). Likewise, John Osgood’s life was all about trying to make more money before he croaked. George Pullman, who controlled his own town and controlled the postal mail, prevented mail for his town from getting the through (it built up to rioting and striking). In fact virtually all were against unionization, though they took different approaches to head it off. And it took the Federal government to trust bust and create a genuine middle class. The details are what makes one scrupulous or not. More disturbingly, many of their ideas and approaches will be familiar today.

aussiegreenie 6y ago

Bill Gate constantly broke the law and even if his post-MS work is wonderful. He should have gone to jail. But American does not punish rich people.