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There is a remarkable difference in Jony Ive's approach towards design and Dieter's despite of his inspiration (OSX calc, iPod, etc.). For e.g., Dieter truly ex

There is a remarkable difference in Jony Ive's approach towards design and Dieter's despite of his inspiration (OSX calc, iPod, etc.). For e.g., Dieter truly explored texture of the surfaces not from an aesthetic goal, but as a tool to aid functionlism (knobs have knurling, sliders have striations, grippy things had rough texture, areas that shouldn't be touched were gloss). Jony just made things beautiful that sold well because that's what sells. That's what luxury brands do. He threw away the german functionalism that Dieter is so well known for, and adopted the hollow aesthetics of his work. Jony was obsessed with how a thing looks more than how a think works (besides the fact that Apple mouse is horrendous to use, it at one point had a charging port under the mouse). He ignored and still to this day ignores ergonomics, transparency, affordances, feedback and many aspects of design that are fundamental to designing a product that interfaces with humans. Instead of looking up to the challenge to make products more usable whilst keeping a consistent coherent aesthetics, he prefers to hide things or flat out omit important features so that the design is clean. He almost had an authoritarian role at Apple - engineering had to bow down to him. About the only thing Jony Ive did with Dieter Rams was adopted minimalism for the sake of aesthetic goals. Dieter would never design a clock that had a transparent face, made legibility poor and had white numerals on clear glass (which does not guarantee contrast): https://watchesbysjx.com/2013/10/jaeger-lecoultre-newson-atmos-and-memovox-customised-by-jony-ive-and-marc-newson-for-red-charity.html https://watchesbysjx.com/2013/10/jaeger-lecoultre-newson-atm... Jony Ive IMO is one of the worst designers in modern history despite of his success.

nicoburns 6y ago
Some of Ive's designs were highly functional. The iPod clickwheel is probably the best example. Much, much better than other contemporary music player interfaces.
- systemvoltage 6y ago
  If you read Walter Isaacson’s biography of Apple, it wasn’t that clear who’s idea it was.
  - systemvoltage 6y ago
    Steve Jobs*, not Apple :-).
- laut 6y ago
  Apple copied that from the Beocom 6000 phone by Bang & Olufsen.
sidpatil 6y ago
> it at one point had a charging port under the mouse I've read that the motivation for this decision was to ensure that the customer would use the device wirelessly as intended. I guess it could be beneficial for the battery as well. In any case, it proves your point further.
- johnwalkr 6y ago
  I understood this as a feature when, after using the Apple mouse with this charging port, I got a Logitech Bluetooth mouse as I needed a middle mouse button for one program. It happens to have a front facing charging port. The mouse worked well and I recommended it to colleagues. On occasions when the battery died, I left a USB cable plugged in and assumed I was using the mouse by USB. At some point I realized it was for charging only after wasting time on “i don’t understand, even after I turn off Bluetooth, the USB interface doesn’t work.” A few times since then I’ve helped colleagues troubleshoot by informing them that there is no USB data interface and they should be checking Bluetooth and not swapping out cables. In both cases (Apple and Logitech), a “charge only” label would have been nice.
- systemvoltage 6y ago
  Interesting, thanks for sharing. That just made it even worse! What they should've done is to make it work either way so if the battery is low, you can connect it via USB to the mac and still use it while it is charging.
simonebrunozzi 6y ago
> Jony Ive IMO is one of the worst designers in modern history despite of his success. I don't disagree with you. The Macbooks I've had for the past 10 or so years all had several design flaws that were never addressed. Try opening a macbook with just one hand, you can't, because there's not enough dent to allow you to lift the screen from the keyboard. Or, try to use the arrows. Pathetic. You (Ive) have the best resources in the world, and yet you make these absolutely stupid mistakes. I can't understand it.

nicoburns 6y ago

Some of Ive's designs were highly functional. The iPod clickwheel is probably the best example. Much, much better than other contemporary music player interfaces.

systemvoltage 6y ago
If you read Walter Isaacson’s biography of Apple, it wasn’t that clear who’s idea it was.
- systemvoltage 6y ago
  Steve Jobs*, not Apple :-).
laut 6y ago
Apple copied that from the Beocom 6000 phone by Bang & Olufsen.

sidpatil 6y ago

> it at one point had a charging port under the mouse I've read that the motivation for this decision was to ensure that the customer would use the device wirelessly as intended. I guess it could be beneficial for the battery as well. In any case, it proves your point further.

johnwalkr 6y ago
I understood this as a feature when, after using the Apple mouse with this charging port, I got a Logitech Bluetooth mouse as I needed a middle mouse button for one program. It happens to have a front facing charging port. The mouse worked well and I recommended it to colleagues. On occasions when the battery died, I left a USB cable plugged in and assumed I was using the mouse by USB. At some point I realized it was for charging only after wasting time on “i don’t understand, even after I turn off Bluetooth, the USB interface doesn’t work.” A few times since then I’ve helped colleagues troubleshoot by informing them that there is no USB data interface and they should be checking Bluetooth and not swapping out cables. In both cases (Apple and Logitech), a “charge only” label would have been nice.
systemvoltage 6y ago
Interesting, thanks for sharing. That just made it even worse! What they should've done is to make it work either way so if the battery is low, you can connect it via USB to the mac and still use it while it is charging.

simonebrunozzi 6y ago

> Jony Ive IMO is one of the worst designers in modern history despite of his success. I don't disagree with you. The Macbooks I've had for the past 10 or so years all had several design flaws that were never addressed. Try opening a macbook with just one hand, you can't, because there's not enough dent to allow you to lift the screen from the keyboard. Or, try to use the arrows. Pathetic. You (Ive) have the best resources in the world, and yet you make these absolutely stupid mistakes. I can't understand it.