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> And similarly, web technology, such as Javascript and just the ability to update a webpage without reloading it wouldn't exist without ad-tech. I don't know

> And similarly, web technology, such as Javascript and just the ability to update a webpage without reloading it wouldn't exist without ad-tech. I don't know what I find more depressing - that somebody thinks this is true, or worse, that somebody thinks this is a good thing.

jedberg 6y ago
We can debate whether or not javascript took off because of adtech, I will concede that. But I think you'd be hard pressed to provide evidence that the web would be better without Javascript. Yes, people abuse javascript and make it do awful things, but think about all the good things Javascript enables. On reddit, you can comment without reloading the page thanks to javascript. There are ton of great games that are all in javascript. Simple things like when you log into a webpage and it shows your username in the corner. Status notification on webpages. Being able to make a request and then continue working while the request processes. Javascript is a tool, and I'd say it's a tool that makes things better overall.
- UweSchmidt 6y ago
  It's of course subjective, but I've recently rediscovered an old browser-based game from around 2000, pure PHP, zero javascript, zero development in a decade. Just fast-loading websites representing an updated game-state of travelling through space, mining and fighting in real time. Perfect. If you comment on reddit, don't you watch the page to confirm your comment went up? So not necessarily a productivity gain through Javascript. Conscious reloading is nice as there is no distraction: You take an action to see new state like login, new messages and notifications. Again, totally subjective. There were plenty of games made with Flash, so game dev tools were developed independent of ad-tech.
  - fastball 6y ago
    There is no possible way you are seeing something happen "in real time" on a web game written entirely in PHP.
    - UweSchmidt 6y ago
      Of course not, the page is static, but the game runs in real time on the server, so you could be in danger and have to refresh/move to find out. The point is, and it is subtle, you never get distracted by a website and some self-updating elements until you decide to pay attention and take some action (refresh). It works and is very simple.
      - derivagral 6y ago
        I assume this is oGame or similar? When I was in high school I had a lot of fun learning Javascript/HTML in the console & TamperMonkey to create shortcut menus, faster actions, track area activity, etc. The modern versions of these use a lot more Javascript for countdown timers, and while that's nice the pages usually feel slower.

jedberg 6y ago

We can debate whether or not javascript took off because of adtech, I will concede that. But I think you'd be hard pressed to provide evidence that the web would be better without Javascript. Yes, people abuse javascript and make it do awful things, but think about all the good things Javascript enables. On reddit, you can comment without reloading the page thanks to javascript. There are ton of great games that are all in javascript. Simple things like when you log into a webpage and it shows your username in the corner. Status notification on webpages. Being able to make a request and then continue working while the request processes. Javascript is a tool, and I'd say it's a tool that makes things better overall.

UweSchmidt 6y ago
It's of course subjective, but I've recently rediscovered an old browser-based game from around 2000, pure PHP, zero javascript, zero development in a decade. Just fast-loading websites representing an updated game-state of travelling through space, mining and fighting in real time. Perfect. If you comment on reddit, don't you watch the page to confirm your comment went up? So not necessarily a productivity gain through Javascript. Conscious reloading is nice as there is no distraction: You take an action to see new state like login, new messages and notifications. Again, totally subjective. There were plenty of games made with Flash, so game dev tools were developed independent of ad-tech.
- fastball 6y ago
  There is no possible way you are seeing something happen "in real time" on a web game written entirely in PHP.
  - UweSchmidt 6y ago
    Of course not, the page is static, but the game runs in real time on the server, so you could be in danger and have to refresh/move to find out. The point is, and it is subtle, you never get distracted by a website and some self-updating elements until you decide to pay attention and take some action (refresh). It works and is very simple.
    - derivagral 6y ago
      I assume this is oGame or similar? When I was in high school I had a lot of fun learning Javascript/HTML in the console & TamperMonkey to create shortcut menus, faster actions, track area activity, etc. The modern versions of these use a lot more Javascript for countdown timers, and while that's nice the pages usually feel slower.