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It is extremely isolated even in India itself. I have interviewed with about a hundred people so far. No one asked me my caste, and I never asked anyone theirs.

by qart 6y ago

It is extremely isolated even in India itself. I have interviewed with about a hundred people so far. No one asked me my caste, and I never asked anyone theirs. Some north Indian names give away the caste from the last name. That's less likely to happen in southern India, where most of us don't even have a family name.

pkphilip 6y ago
This is blatantly untrue. Caste discrimination is a harsh reality in India that millions of people face on a daily basis.
- qart 6y ago
  For the millions in villages, yes. It is not common in cities. Are you Indian? How often do people ask you for your caste? And please don't tell me my own lived experience is "blatantly untrue".
  - throwawayL0v3 6y ago
    Hi, yes I am an Indian and its astounding to me that you as an Indian whose life, education, wealth, quality of life, access to healthcare, choice of life partner, friends, status in society, place of residence is all determined by your caste being completely oblivious to it. You have been so internalized into the caste system that you count only explicit and physically hurting ones as forms of discrimination. You are either incredibly privileged possibly a Brahmin or you're ignorant so much that you deny the suffering of more than a billion people as outright false!!
  - pkphilip 6y ago
    It is still very common in the cities. A survey from 2018 points to how prevalent it is in the urban regions - including in Delhi - even untouchability is practised in the cities. https://indianexpress.com/article/india/untouchability-high-in-urban-up-and-rajasthan-even-delhi-survey-5021282/ https://indianexpress.com/article/india/untouchability-high-...
    - qart 6y ago
      Without linking to the actual questions and the data, this is yellow journalism. In one paragraph, it is “self or family member”, but in the next paragraph, it becomes "50 per cent of respondents in urban Rajasthan admitted to practising untouchability". This is the same kind of yellow journalism that in the US lead to prominent figures touting "one in five women on college campuses is raped". There is no epidemic of rape in US college campuses either. I asked you how often you get asked for your caste, which you did not answer. I have a few very visibly brahmin colleagues. When we work together, they don't discriminate against any of my colleagues or me. When we go for team outings, they don't go to restaurant kitchens and ask the cooks and waiters for their caste, and more often than not, the restaurant serves meat.
      - pkphilip 6y ago
        If you think that is yellow journalism, may I present to you a survey conducted by researchers from Princeton university: https://paa2015.princeton.edu/papers/153481 https://paa2015.princeton.edu/papers/153481 Please scroll to page 8. The data shows about 27% of Indian households ADMITS to practising untouchability. May I present to you another survey - this time from EPW. https://www.epw.in/journal/2020/2/special-articles/continuing-practice-untouchability-india.html https://www.epw.in/journal/2020/2/special-articles/continuin... You can see a summary of this research here: https://newsmeter.in/more-than-40-of-brahmin-households-practice-untouchability-obcs-second-at-26-survey/ https://newsmeter.in/more-than-40-of-brahmin-households-prac... You are looking for anecdotal data when I am presenting you with actual survey data. You want to extrapolate from your own situation (as well as mine) to decide what the situation is nation-wide. That is not how things work. In your particular situation - which may not be representative of the situation of others, you may not be a racist/casteist in your thinking, but you certainly can't extrapolate from that for what the situation is like across the board.
        qart 6y ago
        > Please scroll to page 8. The data shows about 27% of Indian households Good, so these figures are not even close to the 50% figure for urban Rajasthan. Why do you think the figures differ so drastically? Also, clever of the "researchers" to inflate figures using "households". Absolutely zero among my hundreds of colleagues have demonstrated casteist attitudes, so let's ask about their grandparents. That's how you get "households". > You are looking for anecdotal data when I am presenting you with actual survey data. Correct. Because sociological "studies" are rife with methodological failures. They drive an agenda worse than any autorickshaw driver drives his auto. This is the field that gave us "one in five women on college campuses are raped" and "India is the least safe country in the world for women". All obvious bullshit, but here we are. > from your own situation (as well as mine) This is the interesting part. We don't know each other. You could have told me anything at all about how you have been discriminated against by the "upper caste". Yet you didn't. It goes to show how believable you, yourself, would consider such stories would be. There is an interesting parallel between believing BS of the holy men in the past (the priests, the prophets) and believing the BS of today's holy men (the academics). Some fields are taking active steps to addressing the replication crisis. Sociology is not one of them.
- jelliclesfarm 6y ago
  How many millions? There are 1400 million people in India.
  - pkphilip 6y ago
    The total population of brahmins is less than 6% in India. People from other castes - especially the tribals and the dalits (more than 40%), experience caste oppression regularly.
    - jelliclesfarm 6y ago
      Are you saying 6% of the Brahmins are oppressing 40% of the remaining population? Source? [..] India is home to over 200 million Dalits. According to Paul Diwakar, a Dalit activist from the National Campaign on Dalit Human Rights, "India has 600,000 villages and almost every village a small pocket on the outskirts is meant for Dalits."[..] Indian population is 1400 million
      - newen 6y ago
        Aristocracy is France was around 10%. There are plenty of upper caste Indians (around 18% to 30% total depending on how you count it) who benefit from this societal structure.
        pfiwxruxta 6y ago
        So what is it - 6% or 30%? And where's the source?
        jelliclesfarm 6y ago
        Ok. The original comment said Brahmins are oppressing the Dalits. What has this got to do with the French? ‘Upper classes’ are not all aristocracy. I think you are confused.
        newen 6y ago

by qart 6y ago

pkphilip 6y ago

This is blatantly untrue. Caste discrimination is a harsh reality in India that millions of people face on a daily basis.

qart 6y ago
For the millions in villages, yes. It is not common in cities. Are you Indian? How often do people ask you for your caste? And please don't tell me my own lived experience is "blatantly untrue".
- throwawayL0v3 6y ago
  Hi, yes I am an Indian and its astounding to me that you as an Indian whose life, education, wealth, quality of life, access to healthcare, choice of life partner, friends, status in society, place of residence is all determined by your caste being completely oblivious to it. You have been so internalized into the caste system that you count only explicit and physically hurting ones as forms of discrimination. You are either incredibly privileged possibly a Brahmin or you're ignorant so much that you deny the suffering of more than a billion people as outright false!!
- pkphilip 6y ago
  It is still very common in the cities. A survey from 2018 points to how prevalent it is in the urban regions - including in Delhi - even untouchability is practised in the cities. https://indianexpress.com/article/india/untouchability-high-in-urban-up-and-rajasthan-even-delhi-survey-5021282/ https://indianexpress.com/article/india/untouchability-high-...
  - qart 6y ago
    Without linking to the actual questions and the data, this is yellow journalism. In one paragraph, it is “self or family member”, but in the next paragraph, it becomes "50 per cent of respondents in urban Rajasthan admitted to practising untouchability". This is the same kind of yellow journalism that in the US lead to prominent figures touting "one in five women on college campuses is raped". There is no epidemic of rape in US college campuses either. I asked you how often you get asked for your caste, which you did not answer. I have a few very visibly brahmin colleagues. When we work together, they don't discriminate against any of my colleagues or me. When we go for team outings, they don't go to restaurant kitchens and ask the cooks and waiters for their caste, and more often than not, the restaurant serves meat.
    - pkphilip 6y ago
      If you think that is yellow journalism, may I present to you a survey conducted by researchers from Princeton university: https://paa2015.princeton.edu/papers/153481 https://paa2015.princeton.edu/papers/153481 Please scroll to page 8. The data shows about 27% of Indian households ADMITS to practising untouchability. May I present to you another survey - this time from EPW. https://www.epw.in/journal/2020/2/special-articles/continuing-practice-untouchability-india.html https://www.epw.in/journal/2020/2/special-articles/continuin... You can see a summary of this research here: https://newsmeter.in/more-than-40-of-brahmin-households-practice-untouchability-obcs-second-at-26-survey/ https://newsmeter.in/more-than-40-of-brahmin-households-prac... You are looking for anecdotal data when I am presenting you with actual survey data. You want to extrapolate from your own situation (as well as mine) to decide what the situation is nation-wide. That is not how things work. In your particular situation - which may not be representative of the situation of others, you may not be a racist/casteist in your thinking, but you certainly can't extrapolate from that for what the situation is like across the board.
      - qart 6y ago
        > Please scroll to page 8. The data shows about 27% of Indian households Good, so these figures are not even close to the 50% figure for urban Rajasthan. Why do you think the figures differ so drastically? Also, clever of the "researchers" to inflate figures using "households". Absolutely zero among my hundreds of colleagues have demonstrated casteist attitudes, so let's ask about their grandparents. That's how you get "households". > You are looking for anecdotal data when I am presenting you with actual survey data. Correct. Because sociological "studies" are rife with methodological failures. They drive an agenda worse than any autorickshaw driver drives his auto. This is the field that gave us "one in five women on college campuses are raped" and "India is the least safe country in the world for women". All obvious bullshit, but here we are. > from your own situation (as well as mine) This is the interesting part. We don't know each other. You could have told me anything at all about how you have been discriminated against by the "upper caste". Yet you didn't. It goes to show how believable you, yourself, would consider such stories would be. There is an interesting parallel between believing BS of the holy men in the past (the priests, the prophets) and believing the BS of today's holy men (the academics). Some fields are taking active steps to addressing the replication crisis. Sociology is not one of them.
jelliclesfarm 6y ago
How many millions? There are 1400 million people in India.
- pkphilip 6y ago
  The total population of brahmins is less than 6% in India. People from other castes - especially the tribals and the dalits (more than 40%), experience caste oppression regularly.
  - jelliclesfarm 6y ago
    Are you saying 6% of the Brahmins are oppressing 40% of the remaining population? Source? [..] India is home to over 200 million Dalits. According to Paul Diwakar, a Dalit activist from the National Campaign on Dalit Human Rights, "India has 600,000 villages and almost every village a small pocket on the outskirts is meant for Dalits."[..] Indian population is 1400 million
    - newen 6y ago
      Aristocracy is France was around 10%. There are plenty of upper caste Indians (around 18% to 30% total depending on how you count it) who benefit from this societal structure.
      - pfiwxruxta 6y ago
        So what is it - 6% or 30%? And where's the source?
      - jelliclesfarm 6y ago
        Ok. The original comment said Brahmins are oppressing the Dalits. What has this got to do with the French? ‘Upper classes’ are not all aristocracy. I think you are confused.
        newen 6y ago