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The worst part isn't even listed in the article - Tesla is remotely disabling fast charging on all salvage cars across all networks, regardless of what the actu
by GhostVII 6y ago
The worst part isn't even listed in the article - Tesla is remotely disabling fast charging on all salvage cars across all networks, regardless of what the actual damage is. If it was just limited to the supercharger network I would somewhat understand, it's their network and I don't think it's a huge deal to disallow salvage cars on it. But they are removing the ability to charge even at third party chargers, basically removing any ability to go on a reasonable road trip with your car, with no warning. Completely insane, especially since many salvage cars just had body damage.
This is why I don't want a car connected to the internet. The behavior of my 50k vehicle should not change unexpectedly because some guy in silicon valley pushed an update.
- vaccinator 6y agoBut it is impossible to get a car that is not connected to the internet today, unless you find out how to disconnect it yourself. This near-7-year-old link[0] always make me laugh. [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-exec-gps-2014-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-exec-gps-2014-1
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- semi-extrinsic 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacia_Duster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacia_Duster This thing is definitely not internet connected. The basic trim does not even feature a radio at all, only standard space to fit a 1-DIN radio yourself. It has manual (roll down) rear windows. I don't know about the US, but I would be surprised if you can't buy an F150 that has no internet connection?
- vaccinator 6y agoYou probably can buy one with no network connection, that the user can use, but that doesn't mean that it isn't connected for other purposes.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y agoEh. Why spend the cash on a chip and service when the vehicle will need to be services eventually and all info can be downloaded then?
- vaccinator 6y agogood point. but real-time data is probably a bit more valuable.
- dombesz 6y agoYeah, the majority of Dacia models doesn't even come with an air conditioning by default. It's extra, but you know what, I like the idea that it can be left out :)
- eru 6y agoAir conditioning didn't really use to be a standard thing in European cars until quite a lot later than in the US.
- enragedcacti 6y agoyou can go buy a brand new Honda Civic today that has no cellular modem.
- vaccinator 6y agoI'm not doubting you but how did you check your claim? (but either way, no cellular modem doesn't mean no wireless connection)
- R0b0t1 6y agoEvery modern car has a black box that can be subpoenaed for accident information and may expose other incidental information.
- fuzxi 6y agoIs it connected to the internet, as the parent comment claimed?
- PhantomGremlin 6y agoNot quite all vehicles yet. Here's a list maintained by a company that's in the business of downloading and analyzing Event Data Recorder information: https://rimkus.com/media/pdfs/Event-Data-Recorder-Vehicle-List-Rimkus.pdf https://rimkus.com/media/pdfs/Event-Data-Recorder-Vehicle-Li... The only Porsche that appears on the list is the Taycan. I don't see any Ferrari cars on the list.
- nickserv 6y agoYup, this is part of the reason I just bought a Dacia Dokker. Another reason is that there's no touch screen anywhere.
- jatsepter 6y agoThere are still excellent cars without cellular links, like Mazda --still with refined driving and excellent reliability.
- judge2020 6y agoSurely the people salvaging these cars would be happy to enter into a contract with Tesla to accept all liability (including superchargers/stations) for damages caused by the car they fixed up, then, right? Edit to add from a below comment I made: I mean more in the scenario of a cell going bad, causing a fire, then maybe blowing up the car and causing collateral damage. As I understand it, this would be covered by the car's insurance, right? If so, Tesla shouldn't be locking the chargers (Maybe Tesla would need to verify insurance before allowing supercharging then). But if it doesn't, or if the car is uninsured, then I can accept Tesla not wanting to be held liable for the damage to their station or other owners' cars for batteries that might have undetectable damage.
- black_puppydog 6y agoIf use of an object requires an ongoing contractual relationship with a specific entity, you don't own it. I know that people here won't be super surprised by this concept, but I still think it's worth getting the wording right. Just as with music and videos and games, I think one should be disallowed from calling something "selling", "buying" or "owning" if what's really being done is "licensing". Yeah, I'm from the "words matter" police. :)
- ma2rten 6y agoWhat about buying a house that is part of a HOA?
- hedora 6y agoI think HOAs are a scam. We recently bought a house, and simply didn’t consider anything with an HOA fee (we made exceptions and considered arrangements where the HOA was limited to private road maintenance). I doubt we’re the only ones; the HOA depresses the price of the house. In my mind, a house + HOA = condo, regardless of whether it shares a wall with someone else, and we’d pay accordingly (50-66% as much, tops).
- 6y ago
- Shivetya 6y agoI will be blunt, I really wish "salvage" cars had no right to exist. There is insufficient consistency between states as to what can be titled as such and still driven on our roads. You can get on the road most of the time just fixing cosmetic items and inspection in some states more concerned with emissions than much else; some states don't even check for working ABS or airbags. I think companies like Tesla are correct in blocking access to their own charging network and I have no issue with another company blocking access to theirs. However I do not agree with the idea Tesla can block you from using another fast charging system.
- dundarious 6y agoThe article claims that many cars are declared "salvage" merely due to Tesla's expensive repairs, which they claim is caused by their (unique?) restrictions on parts availability. As such, Tesla would arguably be responsible for the fact that the cars are "salvage" in the first place. I'm strongly in favor of greater re-use of these enormous machines that require intense capital investment, and valuable and limited resources to create.
- eru 6y ago> I'm strongly in favor of greater re-use of these enormous machines that require intense capital investment, and valuable and limited resources to create. Yes, though as long as Tesla is up-front about their restrictions, people can take those considerations into account when they make their capital investment.
- dundarious 6y agoSure, I can agree with that. And we can also be critical of Tesla for it. It does run somewhat counter to their environmental mission.
- srtjstjsj 6y agoTesla has an environmental marketing, not an environmental mission. An environmental car is something like a LEAF.
- Dahoon 6y agoAny car in the EU that is changed after certification needs to be recertified or have the update tested. The day Tesla updates something that causes someone to get hurt Tesla will be sued into the ground as all software updated cars that haven't had their update tested are illegal. It is also illegal to change a car to make more HP (there's a limit, AFAICR it is at 5%) without getting it recertified. While Tesla don't give a f... about legality some (like me) have been through the process of recertification on way less changes than Tesla does. It is both time-consuming and expensive and the testing was insane. It baffels the mind that none of Tesla's competitors has cried foul yet.
- quintushoratius 6y ago> It baffels the mind that none of Tesla's competitors has cried foul yet. They won't because they're either doing the same, or hoping to do the same in the near future.
- emodendroket 6y agoFrankly a lot of stuff Tesla does makes me wonder how they can get away with it but I guess they're operating in a permissive regulatory environment.
- Spooky23 6y agoThey benefit from being a first mover with more information than the regulatory bodies, who are also badly fragmented and less then effective in this administration. Cars are regulated by a confusing patchwork of state and federal regulation. My guess is they know when they have bad accidents where they have an issue and quickly pay out and secure NDAs. (They prove this when they aggressively contest claims made by customers in public) Eventually, an autopiloted Tesla will cause an accident affecting something like a 10 passenger limo or interstate bus that will trigger an NYSB investigation. That’s likely to crack the facade on all manner of bullshit the company does.
- dheera 6y agoWhat if one were to unplug the cellular antenna and prevent an update from happening? Or does the car detect that condition and yell at you? Reminds me of DJI drones which every now and then ask you if you want to update the software, but updating the software only would cause you to have more restrictions on your flight, not less.
- hated 6y agoYou don't need to leave the antenna unplugged as that could trigger detection or burn up the antenna signal amplifier. You can put a dummy load on the antenna connector instead, nothing whatsoever will be able to detect it, and the radio hardware will never send or receive any signals.
- eru 6y agoWell, the software could have a deadman switch that locks up when they can't phone home for a while?
- tjoff 6y agoIt communicates with the charger, right? So the charger could just go online and refuse service. Don't fix shitty products. Don't buy them in the first place or we won't have anything nice left.
- londons_explore 6y ago> burn up the antenna signal amplifier No need for a dummy load. A cell modem that never received any signals never transmits.
- hated 6y agoUntrue, a cell modem can attempt an initialization sequence and you would never know about it.
- boogies 6y agoSame except s/connected to the internet/connected to the internet via tivoised software/. I think a car one connected by https://github.com/commaai/openpilot https://github.com/commaai/openpilot might be cool.
- vonseel 6y agoDoes it disable the ability to charge, or the ability to fast charge? Certainly they can't prevent you from charging and driving around your wrecked Tesla on your farm or whatever?
- muzika 6y agoDC fast charging gets disabled.