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I'm an upper caste male from India (now in Silicon Valley), so I suppose by the standards of discrimination discourse, I shouldn't be talking about this, but I

I'm an upper caste male from India (now in Silicon Valley), so I suppose by the standards of discrimination discourse, I shouldn't be talking about this, but I will anyway. The evidence for this happening is poor. I have dozens of Indian friends who have been in the US for three decades, and they've never heard of it either. It could still be happening, of course, but the case for it would be more real if there was one actual case of a company or government censuring someone for it.

objclxt 6y ago
> it would be more real if there was one actual case of a company or government censuring someone for it. To be clear, this story got legs specifically because California is bringing a case against Cisco for caste-related discrimination. So the government is certainly trying to censure someone for it.
- chanakya 6y ago
  Sure, but as far as I know, that is the only case of its kind in the country, and before we raise the alarm about widespread caste discrimination, shouldn't we have at least one case decided?
  - Arnavion 6y ago
    The only outcome of this is that non-Indians will now start seeing spooks where there are none. There are already a couple in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24953219 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24953219 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24953346 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24953346 But what can you do.
booi 6y ago
It feels like the fact that you even identify yourself as upper caste means you’re part of the problem
- garyfirestorm 6y ago
  No it means he/she self aware of the privileges he/she has enjoyed. You don't get to identify as a particular caste, your name gives it away even before anyone has seen you.
xornox 6y ago
Instead of you, perhaps someone from lower caste would be better to evaluate if there is discrimination or not.
- chanakya 6y ago
  Yes, their views would carry more weight, but I do think mine are a contribution to the discussion too.
- rayiner 6y ago
  Someone from lower caste might be more qualified to speak to personal experiences of discrimination, but everyone can synthesize the anecdotes and data for themselves.
  - Arnavion 6y ago
    Did you mean to use the word "synthesize" ?
- mensetmanusman 6y ago
  Not instead, both are good. The more data the better.
oh_sigh 6y ago
This comment sounds exactly like the comments that are sometimes made when discussing sexism in tech by men. "Does sexism even exist in tech? I've never seen anyone be sexist in front of me." It doesn't prove anything one way or the other, but it is the exact same rhetorical strategy.
- coffeefirst 6y ago
  This also isn’t necessarily rhetorical. The reason you won’t see it is because people pick up on just enough social cues that if you are likely to react badly to it, they probably won’t do it in front of you.
quackquackquack 6y ago
I'm also an upper caste male in Silicon Valley. While I largely agree with you in that most people state-side haven't heard of it happening here, that doesn't mean it doesn't subconsciously exist. The main thing I think the article got wrong is this: > they're often clever attempts to find out something very specific I don't think they are "clever" attempts. People aren't that clever, in general. It's very possible that people are just used to asking these very normal questions out of habit (e.g. "are you vegetarian" is a perfectly normal question to ask before going to lunch with someone, to factor that in your suggestions of places to eat). It's just that they may be subconsciously deriving further biases based on the answers instead of taking the answers at face value. If, for example, someone not being vegetarian was originally just a benign question to go out to lunch together, but later subconsciously causes the manager to not give them that promotion, that would be discrimination, and I can't say for sure that that doesn't happen.
vijaybritto 6y ago
> I have dozens of Indian friends who have been in the US for three decades, and they've never heard of it either. This sounds like a white male talking to other white males assumes that racism is not seen anywhere

objclxt 6y ago

> it would be more real if there was one actual case of a company or government censuring someone for it. To be clear, this story got legs specifically because California is bringing a case against Cisco for caste-related discrimination. So the government is certainly trying to censure someone for it.

chanakya 6y ago
Sure, but as far as I know, that is the only case of its kind in the country, and before we raise the alarm about widespread caste discrimination, shouldn't we have at least one case decided?
- Arnavion 6y ago
  The only outcome of this is that non-Indians will now start seeing spooks where there are none. There are already a couple in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24953219 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24953219 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24953346 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24953346 But what can you do.

booi 6y ago

It feels like the fact that you even identify yourself as upper caste means you’re part of the problem

garyfirestorm 6y ago
No it means he/she self aware of the privileges he/she has enjoyed. You don't get to identify as a particular caste, your name gives it away even before anyone has seen you.

xornox 6y ago

Instead of you, perhaps someone from lower caste would be better to evaluate if there is discrimination or not.

chanakya 6y ago
Yes, their views would carry more weight, but I do think mine are a contribution to the discussion too.
rayiner 6y ago
Someone from lower caste might be more qualified to speak to personal experiences of discrimination, but everyone can synthesize the anecdotes and data for themselves.
- Arnavion 6y ago
  Did you mean to use the word "synthesize" ?
mensetmanusman 6y ago
Not instead, both are good. The more data the better.

oh_sigh 6y ago

This comment sounds exactly like the comments that are sometimes made when discussing sexism in tech by men. "Does sexism even exist in tech? I've never seen anyone be sexist in front of me." It doesn't prove anything one way or the other, but it is the exact same rhetorical strategy.

coffeefirst 6y ago
This also isn’t necessarily rhetorical. The reason you won’t see it is because people pick up on just enough social cues that if you are likely to react badly to it, they probably won’t do it in front of you.

quackquackquack 6y ago

I'm also an upper caste male in Silicon Valley. While I largely agree with you in that most people state-side haven't heard of it happening here, that doesn't mean it doesn't subconsciously exist. The main thing I think the article got wrong is this: > they're often clever attempts to find out something very specific I don't think they are "clever" attempts. People aren't that clever, in general. It's very possible that people are just used to asking these very normal questions out of habit (e.g. "are you vegetarian" is a perfectly normal question to ask before going to lunch with someone, to factor that in your suggestions of places to eat). It's just that they may be subconsciously deriving further biases based on the answers instead of taking the answers at face value. If, for example, someone not being vegetarian was originally just a benign question to go out to lunch together, but later subconsciously causes the manager to not give them that promotion, that would be discrimination, and I can't say for sure that that doesn't happen.

vijaybritto 6y ago

> I have dozens of Indian friends who have been in the US for three decades, and they've never heard of it either. This sounds like a white male talking to other white males assumes that racism is not seen anywhere