6 ms·

I have a hunch that we will discover (not invent) the strong AI not in Neural Networks, but in Swarm logic. Infinitely complex systems can emerge from simple un

I have a hunch that we will discover (not invent) the strong AI not in Neural Networks, but in Swarm logic. Infinitely complex systems can emerge from simple units multiplied exponentially. I still can't stop being amazed by crazy thing they have discovered in Conway's Game of Life.

navaati 6y ago
If that happens, it’ll be so far from human intelligence, and thus probably terrifying !
- wintorez 6y ago
  My guess, which reads more like sci-fi than anything is, the strong AI will emerge as a side-effect of IoT communicating with each other. Once the number of connected things hits a critical mass (I'm talking about billions), it will happen.
  - tobr 6y ago
    There are already many billions of devices connected to the internet.
    - wintorez 6y ago
      We're still a few iterations away from what I call the primordial network that could lead to that. We need some sort of automatic peer-to-peer communication between nodes, that is not in place yet, but I'm guessing will become norm in the future to solve a different problem. I think "Edge computing" is taking us to that direction.
  - baxtr 6y ago
    That my friend sounds very similar to a famous movie from the 80s!
    - wintorez 6y ago
      Which one? :)
      - baxtr 6y ago
        The one with the famous Californian Governor ;)
    - tzot 6y ago
      It also sounds very similar to Mike, the computer at the Moon in “The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress”, which predates the 80s.
abeppu 6y ago
This is an interesting direction. But what is the critical attribute of a swarm that would give rise to strong AI? The argentine ant supercolony is an enormous swarm, but we don't really expect to be able to have a conversation with it, or see it deal with abstract concepts, but they can solve lots of local approximate optimization problems. Slime molds are single cells but you might think of them as a swarm of nuclei and organelles that can solve hard optimization problems when in the right form, but again they don't seem like a general intelligence. Is the missing piece that swarms must be of agents with certain properties? Or that the interactions between the members of a swarm need to have some specific properties?
- wintorez 6y ago
  You raised some very valid questions. I'm speculating here, so take my answer as sort of sci-fi premise. I think as the internet and IoT grows, it becomes more decentralized, it will be come unfeasible for all these nodes to communicate to some central nodes (i.e. servers), so we will move toward automated peer-to-peer communication, with some simple routing and optimization rules. These of these nodes automatically detect, connect, and communicate with the nearest node. Think of it as bluetooth vs wi-fi hybrid of the future. The aim is to make a more resilient internet by eliminating single points of failure (i.e. AWS servers down), but the end result will be some sort of rudimentary network, that will lead to "emergence" of some sort. I just realized I've been describing "Edge computing".
  - theamk 6y ago
    I cannot imagine this happening in the world we live in. I would not my IOT lightbulb (or worse, a camera) to communicate with my neighbor's house -- there are significant availability, privacy and security concerns. The same way, I remember seeing lots of open WiFi networks, twenty years ago... and now they are virtually gone. Instead, it would be still centralized servers, but with more reliability -- think fiber + 5G backup at home, and multi-region/cloudfare workers approach in the cloud.
    - sadness3 6y ago
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Fishysoup 6y ago
I think emergence and complexity are important topics here. It's important that we actually understand how the pieces come together though. Maybe that's a place for functional programming/logic and frameworks that make composition easy
imvetri 6y ago
Game of life or other swarm logic misses to account the observer.

navaati 6y ago

If that happens, it’ll be so far from human intelligence, and thus probably terrifying !

wintorez 6y ago
My guess, which reads more like sci-fi than anything is, the strong AI will emerge as a side-effect of IoT communicating with each other. Once the number of connected things hits a critical mass (I'm talking about billions), it will happen.
- tobr 6y ago
  There are already many billions of devices connected to the internet.
  - wintorez 6y ago
    We're still a few iterations away from what I call the primordial network that could lead to that. We need some sort of automatic peer-to-peer communication between nodes, that is not in place yet, but I'm guessing will become norm in the future to solve a different problem. I think "Edge computing" is taking us to that direction.
- baxtr 6y ago
  That my friend sounds very similar to a famous movie from the 80s!
  - wintorez 6y ago
    Which one? :)
    - baxtr 6y ago
      The one with the famous Californian Governor ;)
  - tzot 6y ago
    It also sounds very similar to Mike, the computer at the Moon in “The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress”, which predates the 80s.

abeppu 6y ago

This is an interesting direction. But what is the critical attribute of a swarm that would give rise to strong AI? The argentine ant supercolony is an enormous swarm, but we don't really expect to be able to have a conversation with it, or see it deal with abstract concepts, but they can solve lots of local approximate optimization problems. Slime molds are single cells but you might think of them as a swarm of nuclei and organelles that can solve hard optimization problems when in the right form, but again they don't seem like a general intelligence. Is the missing piece that swarms must be of agents with certain properties? Or that the interactions between the members of a swarm need to have some specific properties?

wintorez 6y ago
You raised some very valid questions. I'm speculating here, so take my answer as sort of sci-fi premise. I think as the internet and IoT grows, it becomes more decentralized, it will be come unfeasible for all these nodes to communicate to some central nodes (i.e. servers), so we will move toward automated peer-to-peer communication, with some simple routing and optimization rules. These of these nodes automatically detect, connect, and communicate with the nearest node. Think of it as bluetooth vs wi-fi hybrid of the future. The aim is to make a more resilient internet by eliminating single points of failure (i.e. AWS servers down), but the end result will be some sort of rudimentary network, that will lead to "emergence" of some sort. I just realized I've been describing "Edge computing".
- theamk 6y ago
  I cannot imagine this happening in the world we live in. I would not my IOT lightbulb (or worse, a camera) to communicate with my neighbor's house -- there are significant availability, privacy and security concerns. The same way, I remember seeing lots of open WiFi networks, twenty years ago... and now they are virtually gone. Instead, it would be still centralized servers, but with more reliability -- think fiber + 5G backup at home, and multi-region/cloudfare workers approach in the cloud.
  - sadness3 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Fishysoup 6y ago

I think emergence and complexity are important topics here. It's important that we actually understand how the pieces come together though. Maybe that's a place for functional programming/logic and frameworks that make composition easy

imvetri 6y ago

Game of life or other swarm logic misses to account the observer.