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Bitcoin is only subject to tax if you move it back into the controlled financial system. Otherwise it's just numbers hopping around anonymously on a ledger.

by kneel 6y ago

JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> Otherwise it's just numbers hopping around anonymously on a ledger That’s tax evasion. I know it’s chic to be callous about tax fraud in some cryptocurrency circles. But the same has been true of cash, art and bearer bonds for centuries.
- kneel 6y ago
  It's not tax evasion if the hops are non taxable events, and the privacy of wallets enable anyone to deny it. This is why Bitcoin is an existential threat to government power. I personally think it's empowering and great for the individual, however if you tend towards more statist views then this would seem like anarchy.
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  - uniqueid 6y ago
    Many of our governments are liberal democracies. It sounds less positive when you rephrase it like that; ie: "Bitcoin is a threat to liberal democracy" I don't want some drug lord to pump/dump/coerce/tax-evade their way into being the richest person on my continent, and then hire an army to take my nation over. That is easier with crypto currency than it is with fiat. The tech community dropped the ball in the '90s by being panglossian about the potential problems with the web. It would be nice if, this time, we could get ahead of the ball with crypto currencies.
    - kneel 6y ago
      Yeah I think those are valid concerns. The ideal case would be a hybrid system of state fiat and cryptocurrencies where liberal democracies incentivize their citizens to use fiat through better governance and services while also respecting the sovereignty of individuals to accumulate value that cannot be debased by dumb political decisions. Why not both?
    - stale2002 6y ago
      > Many of our governments are liberal democracies. The liberal democracies are pretty open and positive on cryptocurrencies. So no, it does not seem to be threat to them. Instead, it is more of a threat to the less liberal countries.
      - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
        OP advocates wilful tax fraud [1]. If large portions of the economy aren’t paying taxes, I am not paying taxes. This breaks down the social contract. Given authoritarian nations’ increased force projection, this vision of cryptocurrencies first corrodes liberal democracies, where those not paying have courts and Constitutions between them and the state. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24953317 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24953317
        stale2002 6y ago
        > OP advocates wilful tax fraud Nope! Liberal democracies allow cryptocurrency and it very well could be the case that some of these crypto events are non taxable events. Thats just working within what liberal democracies allow. > have courts and Constitutions Courts and constitutions are pretty important in liberal democracies. I support the protections that those provide, personally.
    - brokenkebab 6y ago
      Though it expresses valid concern, it doesn't make especially compelling argument because it's too easy to flip it: majority of gov'ts are not democracies, and there are lots of places where organized crime, and officials are the same people. Shouldn't we praise a possibility for people to circumvent corruption, and crime, not enabling all of these, and also repressive apparatus with their hard-earned money? I suppose life's not that easy for us to have just one morally correct choice here.

Bitcoin is only subject to tax if you move it back into the controlled financial system. Otherwise it's just numbers hopping around anonymously on a ledger.

by kneel 6y ago

Bitcoin is only subject to tax if you move it back into the controlled financial system. Otherwise it's just numbers hopping around anonymously on a ledger.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago

> Otherwise it's just numbers hopping around anonymously on a ledger That’s tax evasion. I know it’s chic to be callous about tax fraud in some cryptocurrency circles. But the same has been true of cash, art and bearer bonds for centuries.

kneel 6y ago
It's not tax evasion if the hops are non taxable events, and the privacy of wallets enable anyone to deny it. This is why Bitcoin is an existential threat to government power. I personally think it's empowering and great for the individual, however if you tend towards more statist views then this would seem like anarchy.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- uniqueid 6y ago
  Many of our governments are liberal democracies. It sounds less positive when you rephrase it like that; ie: "Bitcoin is a threat to liberal democracy" I don't want some drug lord to pump/dump/coerce/tax-evade their way into being the richest person on my continent, and then hire an army to take my nation over. That is easier with crypto currency than it is with fiat. The tech community dropped the ball in the '90s by being panglossian about the potential problems with the web. It would be nice if, this time, we could get ahead of the ball with crypto currencies.
  - kneel 6y ago
    Yeah I think those are valid concerns. The ideal case would be a hybrid system of state fiat and cryptocurrencies where liberal democracies incentivize their citizens to use fiat through better governance and services while also respecting the sovereignty of individuals to accumulate value that cannot be debased by dumb political decisions. Why not both?
  - stale2002 6y ago
    > Many of our governments are liberal democracies. The liberal democracies are pretty open and positive on cryptocurrencies. So no, it does not seem to be threat to them. Instead, it is more of a threat to the less liberal countries.
    - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
      OP advocates wilful tax fraud [1]. If large portions of the economy aren’t paying taxes, I am not paying taxes. This breaks down the social contract. Given authoritarian nations’ increased force projection, this vision of cryptocurrencies first corrodes liberal democracies, where those not paying have courts and Constitutions between them and the state. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24953317 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24953317
      - stale2002 6y ago
        > OP advocates wilful tax fraud Nope! Liberal democracies allow cryptocurrency and it very well could be the case that some of these crypto events are non taxable events. Thats just working within what liberal democracies allow. > have courts and Constitutions Courts and constitutions are pretty important in liberal democracies. I support the protections that those provide, personally.
  - brokenkebab 6y ago
    Though it expresses valid concern, it doesn't make especially compelling argument because it's too easy to flip it: majority of gov'ts are not democracies, and there are lots of places where organized crime, and officials are the same people. Shouldn't we praise a possibility for people to circumvent corruption, and crime, not enabling all of these, and also repressive apparatus with their hard-earned money? I suppose life's not that easy for us to have just one morally correct choice here.