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One of the thing that the Indian government can do to reduce this issue is to ban caste related surnames. Like you can literally tell the caste of a person from
by blocked_again 6y ago
One of the thing that the Indian government can do to reduce this issue is to ban caste related surnames. Like you can literally tell the caste of a person from their surname. Its insane that no ruling part had the guts to ban that.
A large parts of population in South Indian states like Tamil Nadu and Kerala no longer have surnames that are tied to the caste. Mostly because of the people deciding to do that by themselves. But the issue is very very bad in Northern states which is where the majority of the population lives.
- YetAnotherNick 6y agoAlmost all of the major surnames can be linked to the caste. Nowadays many people of all the castes have started using caste neutral surnames. Banning the use of any caste related surnames is too much I guess. But people should be allowed to use any surnames.
- notRobot 6y ago> But people should be allowed to use any surnames. Is this not currently the case?
- YetAnotherNick 6y agoLegally yes, but there is some judgement involved in changing the surname.
- mc32 6y agoSomewhat tangential but in Korea people used to buy in to higher prestige surnames which has resulted in the great majority of people sharing a couple handful of surnames.
- jolmg 6y ago> Nowadays many people of all the castes have started using caste neutral surnames. As someone very ignorant of that whole issue, if it's that simple, why doesn't the lower caste(s) always do that? Why "nowadays" only "many" do?
- alisonkisk 6y agoProud parents who resent children who throw away the family name. Not specific to India.
- jolmg 6y agoI was thinking it was the parents that assigned the different surname when naming their newborns, not the children that threw the name away. The former sounds legally easier than the latter. My question was, why assign a lower-caste name to one's child if they have the option not to? But I suppose even then not all people with these lower-caste names see their surname as bad or harmful to their children, if I understood you correctly.
- shi314 6y agoFor Reservations
- blocked_again 6y agoNo. Caste based reservation is not tied to your surname. Major chunk of population of Kerala and Tamil Nadu don't have a caste related surname. It doesn't make them ineligible for caste based reservation. Because the point of the reservation is to level up these communities from the descrimation they faced for hundreds of years. Just changing the caste name doesn't automatically level the playing field. It helps. But they need more support as well.
- BoorishBears 6y agoIf all the lower castes do it and all the people from higher castes keep the signifying surnames, what does that change?
- jolmg 6y ago> and all the people from higher castes keep the signifying surnames But that's not what was said. YetAnotherNick said many of all castes are doing this.
- ryandrake 6y agoNon-Indian here, I've always wondered how does this work in practice? Is there some giant book with a surnames-to-caste look-up table that Indian children memorize so they can recall later when they hear someone's name? That seems to be a lot of to pack into each of 1 billion people's heads. How many distinct surname "keys" in this table are we talking about?
- tempaccount_z12 6y agoI actually disagree, I have worked in almost all parts of India. South India has a very strong "Brahmin" influence to an extent that families disown children if they marry in other caste. They also have a very strong language bias with strong racism against non Tamil speakers. (Although People from Kerala and Andra Pradesh are much better than Tamil Nadu)
- blocked_again 6y agoI am not saying South India is free of caste system. I am just saying it's better to live in a society where one can't tell your caste from your name. Especially if you are from one of the marginalized castes.
- aparsons 6y agoA lot of that is along linguistic lines, driven by two factors: - South india overall had a Dravidian movement denouncing “Brahmanism” in the mid 1950s - Specific to Tamil Nadu, Indian government’s connivance in Ceylon’s Tamil movement invited the wrath of a large sect of Tamils against New Delhi
- BiggusDijkus 6y ago> South India has a very strong "Brahmin" influence .. Oh dear! That notorious Tambram superiority shit. I agree it is still largely at play. However, considering how it is played in the North of India, South is light years better.
- known 6y agoWhich caste is looting India? https://archive.is/5zz1b https://archive.is/5zz1b
- CyberRabbi 6y agoI’m against all forms of discrimination but it’s inhuman to force someone to change their name. That’s like saying certain unsavory last names need to be changed in the U.S. My last name is Cohen, some people in WWII-era Germany wanted to erase my name.
- blocked_again 6y agoWe don't necessarily have to change the name of existing people all at once. The rule can be applied to mostly new borns and figure out the rest from there.
- CyberRabbi 6y agoThat doesn’t make it any better. Your last name is a part of your identity and heritage. You are advocating for cultural genocide and trust me I know what comes after that.
- blocked_again 6y agoHonestly India needs a fresh start at the moment. The baggage of caste system has deprived millions of people for centuries. Most people will prefer to live in a society where they are treated equal in favor of giving up their caste identity that have descriminted their community for centuries.
- CyberRabbi 6y ago“Fresh start” yes this sounds very familiar now. Hard pass.
- blocked_again 6y agoActually it worked out pretty well for Kerala. It's #1 in India in terms of HDI and all most all human related metrics in India. The state with lowest income inequality. And nobody descriminates you on basis of caste in day to day life. Which I can't say is true for many northern states.
- quackquackquack 6y agoOne of the things about Tamil Nadu at least is that a lot of people don't have surnames in the traditional sense. My "surname" is actually my dad's given name, and my dad's "surname" is his dad's given name. So it changes every generation, unlike most of the rest of the world, where a single surname lasts through generations. The point about caste differentiability by surname is still valid, though in a different sense, because the given names also have caste bias. IMO the easiest way to break this cycle would be a widespread campaign to de-stigmatize inter-marriage between castes; that would solve the problem of correlation between name and caste within a generation or two.
- olivermarks 6y agoThe option for immigrants to change their name at Ellis Island long ago existed in large part to combat bringing 'old world' prejudices into the then new USA, nothing has changed...
- ibejoeb 6y agoNobody made a better life in America? I'm certainly aware of at least a handful of people who have gone from poverty to at least comfortable living after coming to America.
- alisonkisk 6y agoNo one said that.
- umanwizard 6y agoFor anyone who is interested: this type of name is called a patronymic, and besides Tamil Nadu exists in at least Iceland and Russia. In both of those countries, a particular grammatical ending is added to the name, whereas in Tamil culture the bare name is used. In Russia, people also have family surnames, in addition to patronymics. For example: “Dmitry Anatolyevich Medvedev”, whose father was presumably named “Anatoliy [something] Medvedev”. Or: “Katrín Jakobsdóttir”, whose father was presumably named “Jakob [something]”.
- vikramkr 6y agoA large portion of the population in south indian states don't have surnames. I think I'm the first person in my family line in what must be centuries that has the same second name as my father (so what you would consider a "surname") because I was born in the US where there is a cultural expectation to have a "family name." So my grandfather's first name, which was my fathers second name, is now my "surname." Otherwise, my fathers first name would have been my "last name," as is the case with my cousins that were born in India.
- baq 6y agoiceland would understand.
- sbmthakur 6y ago> Its insane that no ruling part had the guts to ban that. This is not even remotely popular. That essentially guarantees that the party will not get voted to power again. People, regardless of their caste, always have the option to drop/change their surname.
- BiggusDijkus 6y ago> large parts of population in South Indian states like Tamil Nadu and Kerala no longer have surnames that are tied to the caste. I agree with that general conclusion. I have roots in Kerala and my family purposefully didn't add the caste part in my name. My father has it but not anyone in my family in my generation. That being said, don't forget that the Tamil Brahmin(Tambram) superiority shit is still present at large everywhere.
- jelliclesfarm 6y agoSo should people feel inferior about their culture and heritage?
- shi314 6y agoI could guarantee you, People with supposedly lower castes would be against this. It would be giving up benefits such as easier access to best education and jobs.
- blocked_again 6y agoCaste based reservation is not tied to your surname. Major chunk of population of Kerala and Tamil Nadu don't have a caste related surname. It doesn't make them ineligible for caste based reservation. Because the point of the reservation is to level up these communities from the descrimation they faced for hundreds of years. Just changing the caste name doesn't automatically level the playing field. It helps. But they need more support as well.
- shi314 6y agoSo, that's creating new systemic biases. Here, you are talking about creating a fresh start. The only thing reservations do is actually create divide. During Independence, it was compulsory move where caste discrimination was serious. But today, due to industrialisation it holds no meaning. Now, there is only worker class and ruling class. New Generations(majority) are not taught about castes and discrimination around it, the only time they came in contact with such nonsense is during college entrances. I would also point the superior mentality taught in top colleges is also a reason. The way they are indoctrinated in these colleges creates a superior mentality in students and if your classmate scored less than you and got into college, you would also extend that superior mentality to him/her as well.
- blocked_again 6y agoSucess in today's society depends mostly on how well you are educated. And how well you are educated depends upon how you well educated your parents are, your accessibility to education and your financial status. And the marginalized communities are behind in these factors because of hundreds of years of descrimation. And it makes total sense to give them additional support. You should also keep in mind that marginalized communities make the major chunk of population. And I think the reservation % is also similar to their population %. Probably even lesser. I don't see the issue then? Students in general category get to compete with other students in general category who had a similar upbringing compared to marginalized communities( of course, there are a lot of exceptions). And students in marginalized communities compete with students with other marginalized students. And the top percentile students make it to college from each section. Sounds reasonable to me. I don't think anyone who are reasonable and knows history would have any issue with this system. > The way they are indoctrinated in these colleges creates a superior mentality in students and if your classmate scored less than you and got into college, you would also extend that superior mentality to him/her as well. That's just a sign of our poor education system. I don't think anyone who is well educated would have superior mentality over someone else. So we should work on improving our education system.