6 ms·

My opinion: admittance to a country is a gift. Don’t give it to people who won’t fully integrate.

by ponker 6y ago

romanoderoma 6y ago
I guess that's exactly what native Americans should have done EDIT: I'm sensing a lot of guilty conscience from the downvotes (always appreciated when it's about exposing atrocious ways of thinking) but this time it was simply explaining what the natural consequence of that sentence woul be: US would not exist. And maybe all of us would be better off, who knows...
cushychicken 6y ago
What's "full integration", though? Should they not be allowed to cook their own food? Speak their own language? Practice their own faith? Hold their own values?
- ponker 6y ago
  My father fully integrated but does all of those things. If all of your friends are from your culture, if you watch TV only from your own culture, etc. you’re not fully integrated. If you do the host country stuff AND your native stuff you are.
  - Retr0spectrum 6y ago
    I do not watch TV from my own culture, am I not fully integrated in my native country?
  - pc86 6y ago
    How many hours of American television are you going to require immigrants to watch? Lets use folks from Mexico as an example. Does Spanish-language television created in the US count? What about English-language content that was created in Mexico but for Mexican-American consumption? How many non-American friends do you have? What ratio of American friends does an immigrant need to have before it's okay for them to be here? This is xenophobic bullshit and has no place on a forum like this.
  - romanoderoma 6y ago
    I've watched thousands of hours of Americans television over the past 45 years, read a lot of their authors, especially underground and subcultures like comics, I've heard a lot of their music, immersed in a lot of their culture, have many friends who are Americans, I lived there for a few years, but I still think that fully integrating with US culture is a big mistake, because it's simply not relevant enough to give up other cultures. The more you watch it, the more it's people shooting each other over a bar fight or people killing themselves to get a promotion at work or competing in general over things that have no real connection with happiness. That's why many don't care about it and spend their time with people more like them that share a common background. Understanding each other is more important that following every single rule to "integrate" in a culture that have basically no historical background other than avoiding taxes in their homeland. Mexicans, on the other hand, have been there for millennia.
giantg2 6y ago
That's basically what immigration restrictions do. Only it is done through restricting the number of people from any one area rather than require complete cultural whitewashing.
renewiltord 6y ago
Nice. My opinion as an immigrant is the opposite: I'm clinging to this rock like a tenacious fucking barnacle. And as far as I know, I probably have a better right to it than you. At least I earned it. You were just born into it. I made it here. You can pretend like you gifted me this but in reality you didn't. I took it through my hard work. And you can try to stop me but I'll beat you, even though you have the advantage of having been born here. Because I'm better.
- mlyle 6y ago
  Man, surely there's some kind of middle path without all the forced adversarial stance, isn't there? People "born into it" had a whole lot to say about policy, and provided you the opportunities to be here. You seized them. It should be a good deal for both sides, but to the extent that each tries to make it adversarial and zero-sum, the benefits of the deal evaporate for everyone.
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    Sure. I see it as Tit-for-Tat with default cooperate. We can both play for the win together and I'll start there. Or someone else can start a fight that I will finish.
    - mlyle 6y ago
      I love internet tough guys.
      - renewiltord 6y ago
        Haha! Whatcha gonna do about it, huh? Let's take this outside. I'll put you in the ground. Just playing, just playing.
- romanoderoma 6y ago
  People saying this BS have no idea of what it means to leave everything you know behind and how many home-cultures are simply better than the ones immigrants find themselves living in, but they had to leave because (put the name of some super power) decided that it was the right spot to start a war and destroy everything to seize control of some resource or out of spite to some competing super power People think they are gifting you, because they don't realize how irrelevant they are and how little control have in their lives, let alone the lives of others. P.s. if we wanna talk about integration, Americans, for example, should watch themselves abroad. They are absolutely the less capable of understanding what "this is not the way we do things" means.
Bhilai 6y ago
And did Europeans integrate fully into the native Indian culture before they migrated to the American continent?

My opinion: admittance to a country is a gift. Don’t give it to people who won’t fully integrate.

by ponker 6y ago

My opinion: admittance to a country is a gift. Don’t give it to people who won’t fully integrate.

I guess that's exactly what native Americans should have done EDIT: I'm sensing a lot of guilty conscience from the downvotes (always appreciated when it's about exposing atrocious ways of thinking) but this time it was simply explaining what the natural consequence of that sentence woul be: US would not exist. And maybe all of us would be better off, who knows...

cushychicken 6y ago

What's "full integration", though? Should they not be allowed to cook their own food? Speak their own language? Practice their own faith? Hold their own values?

ponker 6y ago
My father fully integrated but does all of those things. If all of your friends are from your culture, if you watch TV only from your own culture, etc. you’re not fully integrated. If you do the host country stuff AND your native stuff you are.
- Retr0spectrum 6y ago
  I do not watch TV from my own culture, am I not fully integrated in my native country?
- pc86 6y ago
  How many hours of American television are you going to require immigrants to watch? Lets use folks from Mexico as an example. Does Spanish-language television created in the US count? What about English-language content that was created in Mexico but for Mexican-American consumption? How many non-American friends do you have? What ratio of American friends does an immigrant need to have before it's okay for them to be here? This is xenophobic bullshit and has no place on a forum like this.
- romanoderoma 6y ago
  I've watched thousands of hours of Americans television over the past 45 years, read a lot of their authors, especially underground and subcultures like comics, I've heard a lot of their music, immersed in a lot of their culture, have many friends who are Americans, I lived there for a few years, but I still think that fully integrating with US culture is a big mistake, because it's simply not relevant enough to give up other cultures. The more you watch it, the more it's people shooting each other over a bar fight or people killing themselves to get a promotion at work or competing in general over things that have no real connection with happiness. That's why many don't care about it and spend their time with people more like them that share a common background. Understanding each other is more important that following every single rule to "integrate" in a culture that have basically no historical background other than avoiding taxes in their homeland. Mexicans, on the other hand, have been there for millennia.

giantg2 6y ago

That's basically what immigration restrictions do. Only it is done through restricting the number of people from any one area rather than require complete cultural whitewashing.

renewiltord 6y ago

Nice. My opinion as an immigrant is the opposite: I'm clinging to this rock like a tenacious fucking barnacle. And as far as I know, I probably have a better right to it than you. At least I earned it. You were just born into it. I made it here. You can pretend like you gifted me this but in reality you didn't. I took it through my hard work. And you can try to stop me but I'll beat you, even though you have the advantage of having been born here. Because I'm better.

mlyle 6y ago
Man, surely there's some kind of middle path without all the forced adversarial stance, isn't there? People "born into it" had a whole lot to say about policy, and provided you the opportunities to be here. You seized them. It should be a good deal for both sides, but to the extent that each tries to make it adversarial and zero-sum, the benefits of the deal evaporate for everyone.
- renewiltord 6y ago
  Sure. I see it as Tit-for-Tat with default cooperate. We can both play for the win together and I'll start there. Or someone else can start a fight that I will finish.
  - mlyle 6y ago
    I love internet tough guys.
    - renewiltord 6y ago
      Haha! Whatcha gonna do about it, huh? Let's take this outside. I'll put you in the ground. Just playing, just playing.
romanoderoma 6y ago
People saying this BS have no idea of what it means to leave everything you know behind and how many home-cultures are simply better than the ones immigrants find themselves living in, but they had to leave because (put the name of some super power) decided that it was the right spot to start a war and destroy everything to seize control of some resource or out of spite to some competing super power People think they are gifting you, because they don't realize how irrelevant they are and how little control have in their lives, let alone the lives of others. P.s. if we wanna talk about integration, Americans, for example, should watch themselves abroad. They are absolutely the less capable of understanding what "this is not the way we do things" means.

Bhilai 6y ago

And did Europeans integrate fully into the native Indian culture before they migrated to the American continent?