4 ms·

Unless I'm drastically mistaken, PHP is faster than both ruby and python. There's no consideration of what we call technical correctness, only business value, a

by hkt 6y ago

Unless I'm drastically mistaken, PHP is faster than both ruby and python. There's no consideration of what we call technical correctness, only business value, and on the whole that is a good thing.

Zak 6y ago
Most web applications are not bottlenecked by the execution speed of their backend language. > There's no consideration of what we call technical correctness, only business value, and on the whole that is a good thing. That's called technical debt. Taking some on may not always be a bad decision, but if there's a short-term gain (and I'm skeptical PHP provides one), it may come at a cost of future development slowdowns, downtime, a full rewrite, or a data breach.
- noir_lord 6y ago
  In the case of PHP (a language I've used as day job for the last decade on large enterprise projects and other stuff) the speed of PHP isn't its issue. Building the world to throw it away on every request is..compounded by the sheer size of the stack between the PHP runtime and a response (laravel is a particular problem here out the box). You can do sorts of interesting things to get around this but there is no free lunch, they add complexity (caching, shared state, connection pooling) or change the execution model in ways you don't expect. For all that modern PHP isn't a bad language, it's not C# (my favourite pragmatic language) but it's also not as bad as 5 was and certainly not 4. It's biggest 'issue' on a wide scale is the massive disparity in skill levels covered by "PHP programmer" and how hard that makes hiring. My advice is if you are building a small system or one that is tightly constrained then Laravel isn't bad but if you are building a big system or one that will grow over time, go with Symfony, it's more work up front (though not a huge amount) but in every other way future you will thank you.
  - mgkimsal 6y ago
    > Building the world to throw it away on every request is "Shared nothing" architecture has positive benefits too.
    - noir_lord 6y ago
      Absolutely and I regard it as a good feature. It's just the size of the world varies widely and sometimes 80ms to build a world is simply too much.

by hkt 6y ago

Unless I'm drastically mistaken, PHP is faster than both ruby and python. There's no consideration of what we call technical correctness, only business value, and on the whole that is a good thing.

Zak 6y ago

Most web applications are not bottlenecked by the execution speed of their backend language. > There's no consideration of what we call technical correctness, only business value, and on the whole that is a good thing. That's called technical debt. Taking some on may not always be a bad decision, but if there's a short-term gain (and I'm skeptical PHP provides one), it may come at a cost of future development slowdowns, downtime, a full rewrite, or a data breach.

noir_lord 6y ago
In the case of PHP (a language I've used as day job for the last decade on large enterprise projects and other stuff) the speed of PHP isn't its issue. Building the world to throw it away on every request is..compounded by the sheer size of the stack between the PHP runtime and a response (laravel is a particular problem here out the box). You can do sorts of interesting things to get around this but there is no free lunch, they add complexity (caching, shared state, connection pooling) or change the execution model in ways you don't expect. For all that modern PHP isn't a bad language, it's not C# (my favourite pragmatic language) but it's also not as bad as 5 was and certainly not 4. It's biggest 'issue' on a wide scale is the massive disparity in skill levels covered by "PHP programmer" and how hard that makes hiring. My advice is if you are building a small system or one that is tightly constrained then Laravel isn't bad but if you are building a big system or one that will grow over time, go with Symfony, it's more work up front (though not a huge amount) but in every other way future you will thank you.
- mgkimsal 6y ago
  > Building the world to throw it away on every request is "Shared nothing" architecture has positive benefits too.
  - noir_lord 6y ago
    Absolutely and I regard it as a good feature. It's just the size of the world varies widely and sometimes 80ms to build a world is simply too much.