3 ms·

> what's the argument for using it instead of another mature dynamic language like Ruby or Python? A massive body of existing code that you can leverage. I ke

by wtracy 6y ago

> what's the argument for using it instead of another mature dynamic language like Ruby or Python? A massive body of existing code that you can leverage. I keep putting off picking up PHP, but when you look at the number of off-the-shelf easily-extensible solutions for CMSs, CRMs, and e-commerce platforms, there's no contest. PHP wins. If anyone can point me at a Python e-commerce solution that will let you deliver an MVP in an afternoon, and your first original feature within a week, that would make my month.

robertlagrant 6y ago
It's not exactly a language choice at that point. That's like saying C++ is a good language because Excel exists.
- Zak 6y ago
  It's an argument for a particular tech stack that may have PHP in it. Excel is a bad example because it's closed-source and does not put a developer building a solution on top of it on equal footing with its creators. Wordpress is probably the best example here; if it does 90% of what someone wants, it may be easier to add that 10% than to use a different solution. I'd be surprised, however if there aren't solutions written in other languages that provide that same 90% in most cases. None of them are as famous, but that shouldn't hinder someone working as a consultant to help small businesses get online.
  - robertlagrant 6y ago
    Excel enables even less technical people than Wordpress configurers. It provides 99.999999% of the solution, and the rest can be done with macros, pivot tables, etc. That's why it's a good example, I'd say.
    - Zak 6y ago
      Extending Excel is a reason to use VBA, not the C/C++/C# most of Excel itself is written in. Extending Wordpress is a reason to use PHP. In both cases, the merits of the extension language are almost irrelevant; people use them because they're the extension language for a popular platform.
Zak 6y ago
I'm not sure the number of those should be a consideration, as you probably only need one or two of each. The quality or fitness for a particular purpose does matter, and I'll confess to not being up-to-date enough about that kind of software to make a good case for any particular package. They certainly exist for Python, and I can recall using Satchmo and Django CMS some time ago. Those satisfied the MVP in an afternoon criterion for a developer already familiar with them.
- wtracy 6y ago
  Ok, how about the number that are actually production ready? Django CMS looks nice from what I've seen, I'll give you that. I hadn't encountered satchmo before. Their website seems to be down now, which is not encouraging. > Those satisfied the MVP in an afternoon criterion for a developer already familiar with them. Which is completely missing the point. I got WordPress up in under an hour on my first attempt. How many Python solutions can claim that kind of learning curve?
ensignavenger 6y ago
Not sure whats wrong with https://saleor.io/ https://saleor.io/ or http://oscarcommerce.com/ http://oscarcommerce.com/ or any number of other options from https://djangopackages.org/grids/g/ecommerce/ https://djangopackages.org/grids/g/ecommerce/
- wtracy 6y ago
  I hadn't encountered saleor.io, thanks. Oscar, from what I've seen, is very difficult to get started with. The code and documentation are rather hostile to newcomers. I was left with the impression that the documentation is designed to funnel you into associated consulting services, rather than help you get started on your own. I would love to be wrong about that. None if the other e-commerce solutions on Django packages seem to have a sizeable developer community around them. I would be hesitant to use them for anything business critical, unless I had the resources to maintain everything in house.

by wtracy 6y ago

robertlagrant 6y ago

It's not exactly a language choice at that point. That's like saying C++ is a good language because Excel exists.

Zak 6y ago
It's an argument for a particular tech stack that may have PHP in it. Excel is a bad example because it's closed-source and does not put a developer building a solution on top of it on equal footing with its creators. Wordpress is probably the best example here; if it does 90% of what someone wants, it may be easier to add that 10% than to use a different solution. I'd be surprised, however if there aren't solutions written in other languages that provide that same 90% in most cases. None of them are as famous, but that shouldn't hinder someone working as a consultant to help small businesses get online.
- robertlagrant 6y ago
  Excel enables even less technical people than Wordpress configurers. It provides 99.999999% of the solution, and the rest can be done with macros, pivot tables, etc. That's why it's a good example, I'd say.
  - Zak 6y ago
    Extending Excel is a reason to use VBA, not the C/C++/C# most of Excel itself is written in. Extending Wordpress is a reason to use PHP. In both cases, the merits of the extension language are almost irrelevant; people use them because they're the extension language for a popular platform.

Zak 6y ago

I'm not sure the number of those should be a consideration, as you probably only need one or two of each. The quality or fitness for a particular purpose does matter, and I'll confess to not being up-to-date enough about that kind of software to make a good case for any particular package. They certainly exist for Python, and I can recall using Satchmo and Django CMS some time ago. Those satisfied the MVP in an afternoon criterion for a developer already familiar with them.

wtracy 6y ago
Ok, how about the number that are actually production ready? Django CMS looks nice from what I've seen, I'll give you that. I hadn't encountered satchmo before. Their website seems to be down now, which is not encouraging. > Those satisfied the MVP in an afternoon criterion for a developer already familiar with them. Which is completely missing the point. I got WordPress up in under an hour on my first attempt. How many Python solutions can claim that kind of learning curve?

ensignavenger 6y ago

Not sure whats wrong with https://saleor.io/ https://saleor.io/ or http://oscarcommerce.com/ http://oscarcommerce.com/ or any number of other options from https://djangopackages.org/grids/g/ecommerce/ https://djangopackages.org/grids/g/ecommerce/

wtracy 6y ago
I hadn't encountered saleor.io, thanks. Oscar, from what I've seen, is very difficult to get started with. The code and documentation are rather hostile to newcomers. I was left with the impression that the documentation is designed to funnel you into associated consulting services, rather than help you get started on your own. I would love to be wrong about that. None if the other e-commerce solutions on Django packages seem to have a sizeable developer community around them. I would be hesitant to use them for anything business critical, unless I had the resources to maintain everything in house.