3 ms·

I'm pretty fed up of people acting so incredibly arrogant. Unless you can show evidence that wearing a mask is dangerous, and makes things worse, then just wear

I'm pretty fed up of people acting so incredibly arrogant. Unless you can show evidence that wearing a mask is dangerous, and makes things worse, then just wear a mask. Stop trying to find reasons to prove everyone wrong. Some data someone else in the thread posted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24952278 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24952278

dx87 6y ago
The Surgeon General said back in March that wearing masks increases the chance of spreading covid because people aren't trained on how to use them correctly and it gives them a false sense of security. https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/health/surgeon-general-coronavirus-masks-risk-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/health/surgeon-general-corona...
- klyrs 6y ago
  Yes, that was a concern back in March. Back in March, when we had very little understanding of transmission and when hospitals were facing dire mask shortages. What has the surgeon general said since then? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-surgeon-general-jerome-adams-wearing-masks-face-the-nation/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-surgeon-general-jer... Are people on HN actually too stupid to learn how to properly wear a mask in 8 months time? I don't believe that. I think that each of us is smart enough to do that research and train ourselves.
  - gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
    You can characterize what you’re saying to simply: “just comply, citizen” That attitude is precisely what’s wrong with this situation. An elite who’s prescribing technocrat-informed decisions instead of offering balanced and neutral scientific conclusions. Meanwhile you can point to a long line of completely wrong technocratic advice during the pandemic. Always make sure you’re able to say “I might be completely wrong.”
    - klyrs 6y ago
      Yes, you can point at a long line of mistakes. Wiser minds focus on possible solutions, when they exist, and mitigations when they don't. Masks are shown to be effective mitigations. You're being asked to understand the evidence at hand, and make a best effort to participate in the mitigation. Not to comply on blind faith. And sure, I accept that I, and other scientists, make mistakes. To err is human. What about you?
DanBC 6y ago
Asking for your science is not arrogant. Addressing your link, that is somewhat persuasive, but they didn't correct for other behaviours.
- Accacin 6y ago
  No, I do not think so either. But unless wearing a mask is shown by scientific study to be harmful, the default should be to wear a mask - if a study then shows that a mask isn't as helpful as we were led to believe, then fair enough but at least we didn't make things worse.
thu2111 6y ago
Normally, you'd expect people demanding awkward and massive social change to show evidence that it works and isn't dangerous. You should not invert this by demanding people prove things don't work and aren't dangerous; that way lies madness. But at any rate, we can see for ourselves how great an impact those mask mandates had: https://rationalground.com/mask-charts/ https://rationalground.com/mask-charts/ https://swprs.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/france-masks-cases2-e1600240628130.jpg https://swprs.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/france-masks-ca... https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/29/these-12-graphs-show-mask-mandates-do-nothing-to-stop-covid/ https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/29/these-12-graphs-show-ma... Mask mandates don't seem to be associated with any impact on the graphs of positive test results, anywhere. If they don't work then they should not be used for all kinds of reasons, dangerousness is by no means the only factor that should determine decisions. Consider also cost, impact on the environment, choking hazards, comfort, psychological distress created by the appearance of fear and so on. But as some of the writing on this acknowledges, masks long ago became purely political, so we should expect people to keep arguing from different assumptions and not agreeing.

dx87 6y ago

The Surgeon General said back in March that wearing masks increases the chance of spreading covid because people aren't trained on how to use them correctly and it gives them a false sense of security. https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/health/surgeon-general-coronavirus-masks-risk-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/health/surgeon-general-corona...

klyrs 6y ago
Yes, that was a concern back in March. Back in March, when we had very little understanding of transmission and when hospitals were facing dire mask shortages. What has the surgeon general said since then? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-surgeon-general-jerome-adams-wearing-masks-face-the-nation/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-surgeon-general-jer... Are people on HN actually too stupid to learn how to properly wear a mask in 8 months time? I don't believe that. I think that each of us is smart enough to do that research and train ourselves.
- gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
  You can characterize what you’re saying to simply: “just comply, citizen” That attitude is precisely what’s wrong with this situation. An elite who’s prescribing technocrat-informed decisions instead of offering balanced and neutral scientific conclusions. Meanwhile you can point to a long line of completely wrong technocratic advice during the pandemic. Always make sure you’re able to say “I might be completely wrong.”
  - klyrs 6y ago
    Yes, you can point at a long line of mistakes. Wiser minds focus on possible solutions, when they exist, and mitigations when they don't. Masks are shown to be effective mitigations. You're being asked to understand the evidence at hand, and make a best effort to participate in the mitigation. Not to comply on blind faith. And sure, I accept that I, and other scientists, make mistakes. To err is human. What about you?

DanBC 6y ago

Asking for your science is not arrogant. Addressing your link, that is somewhat persuasive, but they didn't correct for other behaviours.

Accacin 6y ago
No, I do not think so either. But unless wearing a mask is shown by scientific study to be harmful, the default should be to wear a mask - if a study then shows that a mask isn't as helpful as we were led to believe, then fair enough but at least we didn't make things worse.

thu2111 6y ago

Normally, you'd expect people demanding awkward and massive social change to show evidence that it works and isn't dangerous. You should not invert this by demanding people prove things don't work and aren't dangerous; that way lies madness. But at any rate, we can see for ourselves how great an impact those mask mandates had: https://rationalground.com/mask-charts/ https://rationalground.com/mask-charts/ https://swprs.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/france-masks-cases2-e1600240628130.jpg https://swprs.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/france-masks-ca... https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/29/these-12-graphs-show-mask-mandates-do-nothing-to-stop-covid/ https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/29/these-12-graphs-show-ma... Mask mandates don't seem to be associated with any impact on the graphs of positive test results, anywhere. If they don't work then they should not be used for all kinds of reasons, dangerousness is by no means the only factor that should determine decisions. Consider also cost, impact on the environment, choking hazards, comfort, psychological distress created by the appearance of fear and so on. But as some of the writing on this acknowledges, masks long ago became purely political, so we should expect people to keep arguing from different assumptions and not agreeing.