8 ms·
Ask HN: Microsoft blocked my outlook.com account for using a VPN. Any ideas?
As the title suggests, my outlook.com account has been suspended due to violations. However, I can't find any reference in their terms and conditions to my specific violation.
The reason is that I use NordVPN to connect to the internet.
Any ideas? I can't do anything without that account as changing my email on many services requires access to my old email.
Over the years I have read many stories on here of this happening to people, mainly on Google services, and it pretty much stops them dead in their tracks... well, now it's happened to me.
I've been thinking about it over the last several days and, legitimately, the only possible recourse is to run your own email server. Now this has it's own issues but it means I have (almost) total control over my data.
Anyway, as the title suggests, any ideas? I just need to get it reinstated so I can move all my email away from it now.
- ancymon 6y agoYou don't really need own email server to solve such problem. If only you had own domain, you could have moved it to different provider and still have access to the services which require your email address. By the way, I often hear how it's good for privacy to use (basically all the time) such VPNs. But my experience so far is that using internet via popular VPNs is annoying. Some websites won't let you in, you get a lot of random CAPTCHAs to solve (e.g. to get Google results) and it seems you can lose email account. For me it's too much hassle.
- doublerabbit 6y agoIt's what infuriates me about google. I have my own colocation and run my own VPN. Because the ISP is me which is not not public listed I get captcha's. And it's not the simple "Click here" either, click on traffic lights and wait seconds for the image to forever fade. I would always recommend everyone to run their own email server. However that has its caveats such as of needing to build up IP reputation.
- Shared404 6y ago> I would always recommend everyone to run their own email server. Any chance you could point me to some good documentation on that? I'm about to set up a homelab and play with OpenBSD some, is 'man opensmtpd' enough to start out with?
- jcynix 6y agoWhile I don't have an OpenBSD system to check that man page, I doubt that it is sufficient to set up a proper mail server. You may find one of the printed books on Postfix helpful. No Starch Press has a decent one, which, regardless of its age, still is a good one. Make sure that your server cannot be used as an open relay to deliver spam. Take a look at http://www.postfix.org/SMTPD_ACCESS_README.html http://www.postfix.org/SMTPD_ACCESS_README.html to learn how to do that. Postfix is a well written piece of software and (IMHO) rather easy to maintain once you understood the basic principles. I've been using it for more than a decade now.
- Shared404 6y agoMany thanks. I'll take a look at that book, I haven't gone wrong with No Starch Press yet. Edit: For anyone else who is looking and can't find it on NSP's website, I found it with 'filetype:pdf The Book of Postfix' on duckduckgo.
- mulmen 6y agoI haven't made time for it yet but this guide seems pretty comprehensive and will be my starting point: https://www.c0ffee.net/blog/mail-server-guide/ https://www.c0ffee.net/blog/mail-server-guide/
- Shared404 6y agoNice! That does indeed look like quite a nice resource.
- viraptor 6y ago> I often hear how it's good for privacy to use (basically all the time) such VPNs This kind of got out of control with YouTube ads for VPNs. I want to scream "what is your threat model!?" at people who tell me they use it all the time. Using them without having a specific reason why is silly. And as you've noticed it's not without downsides.
- mulmen 6y agoI don't understand how adding another party (the VPN provider) that can monitor your traffic is automatically beneficial to privacy.
- gamblor956 6y agoThe reason is that I use NordVPN to connect to the internet. I can tell you that using a VPN wasn't why your account was blocked. Most corporate employees connect to Outlook.com through corporate VPNs (both of my last employers required it).
- codegeek 6y agoCould it be Nord VPN specifically which seems like a more popular consumer oriented VPN compared to say Corporate VPN ?
- dylz 6y agoYes. The VPN you use is basically attacking, bruteforcing Microsoft and multiple Microsoft services 24x7 continuously. Almost any consumer VPN will trigger something similar at every major service.
- aerojoe23 6y agoDo you mean the a mount of traffic that the VPN sends to MS would look like an attack? I think it is just more likely MS doesn't know who you are yet. For example, if you're talking about how you get more captcha to fill out, I think this is because your IP address doesn't have the history to build reputation as you with MS.
- dariusj18 6y agoI think the idea is bad actors are using Nord to attempt hAx0r1ng.
- michaelmrose 6y agoThe VPN service isn't attacking Microsoft. Do you mean customers of the VPN are attacking Microsoft? I use mullvad and have used other vpns all the time with zero difficulty. The only service I can't use is netflix and even they let me access my account just fine I just can't actually play videos while connected to the vpn. There is a huge difference between not allowing access to the service via vpn and banning an account by virtue of accessing the account from a legitimate vpn service. The latter is unusual it is not something anyone ought to expect from "every major service".
- RomanPushkin 6y agoAnd the reason why NordVPN IP was blocked is that NordVPN is often used for scam/hack purposes.
- aPoCoMiLogin 6y agoexactly, had a lot of attack attempts from nordvpn/expressvpn, no wonder someone might got ban because of same IP.
- zxcvbn4038 6y agoI have that same problem with VPNs, all of the big banks lock your account if you use a VPN, and accessing your bank is the one time you would really want to use a VPN.
- user5994461 6y ago>>> accessing your bank is the one time you would really want to use a VPN. what makes you possibly think that? using a VPN is the equivalent of walking into a bank with a motorcycle helmet or a bataclava, don't be surprised of the unwarm welcome. I've worked in bank and fintech around fraud. Blocked quite a few VPN/hosting at the network level so they couldn't even reach our network at all.
- zxcvbn4038 6y agoCitiBank? Is that really you? You may be an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of underdone potato. There’s more of gravy than of grave about you, whatever you are!
- viraptor 6y ago> accessing your bank is the one time you would really want to use a VPN Why do you think so? Do you want your ISP to not know who you bank with? Do you not trust TLS? Is your network operator an active, advanced threat actor? What problems would you like to solve with VPN in this case?
- aerojoe23 6y agoHow do you know it was because of your vpn? Where are the other stories?
- _Understated_ 6y agoI've replied to this above but when I don't use the VPN it just worked fine. On occasion with the VPN active, it flagged up something suspicious and I had to enter my phone number and receive a text to verify me. Now they won't even let me do that.
- zokier 6y agoI heard fastmail is pretty cool
- reanimus 6y agoFor my own purposes (coffee shops, basic geolocation stuff), I usually spun up a VPN server on Linode or something like that. You still run into a lot of issues (many services blacklist VPS provider ranges, including most streaming services), but I never got any suspensions as a result.
- jolmg 6y ago> the only possible recourse is to run your own email server Or you get paid email hosting, preferably from a company whose entire business is just that. Then they'd have a stronger incentive to make sure their users are able to keep using their service.
- Brian_K_White 6y agooutlook.com isn't paid?
- jolmg 6y agoIs it? I look it up and it says "free personal email from Microsoft". That's neither necessarily paid (though it might be optionally), nor from a company whose main/only business is email hosting. My point is that relationships work as good as incentives are aligned. Aligning incentives better leads to a better relationship.
- otterley 6y agoMicrosoft offers both free and paid services. There’s the old Hotmail via outlook.com for free, and for $5/mo you can get Office 365 and access it via Outlook (app or web) and they won’t treat you like a freeloader.
- michaelmrose 6y agoIts what hotmail is called now
- rainingcatndogs 6y agoLast week google did something like that to me. It said "device not recognized" and "suspected activity detected" and won't let me in even after I reset my password. That was my reality check. Fortuanately, I was able to login via my old smartphone. I did a google takeout and downloaded all my data. Then I got a domain name and protonmail account and changed email on all of my accounts to my own domain. Now I have some peace of mind that nothing would be lost even if my gmail account is to be gone tomorrow.
- pzumk 6y agoWhat happens if your protonmail account is gone tomorrow?
- pixxel 6y agoStill owns domain/email.
- susam 6y agoWhat happens if the domain is gone tomorrow? See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21700139 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21700139 for example.
- rainingcatndogs 6y agoDefinitely easier to get back a gone domain(unless I missed payment) than a gone gmail/other free account.
- reificator 6y ago> What happens if your protonmail account is gone tomorrow? > > I did a google takeout and downloaded all my data. > > Then I got a domain name and protonmail account and changed email on all of my accounts to my own domain. Sounds like they'll be fine? Maybe missing a day or two of email as they switch to a new provider.
- 6y ago
- OminousWeapons 6y agoMany service providers will block access from known VPN endpoints. Try changing your endpoint and see if that helps. Otherwise, pick a different VPN.
- zamfi 6y agoOne suggestion: for your primary email address, use an alias (college alumni account, personal dns, etc.) that forwards to your provider of choice (gmail, outlook, whoever) so that when this kind of thing happens you can just update your forwarding address with your provider and instantly restore access to your other accounts. Doesn’t help with your old email, though...
- michaelmrose 6y agoIn practice I have seen this forwarding be less than expeditious with delays on the order of hours. It would seem like using your own domain name allowing you to switch providers may be a better option.
- BlackiceNetwork 6y agoGet yourself a lifetime domain name. And connect that to a email service. And do regular backups of your mails in a structured way. Email hoster misbehaving. Just switch mail provider, keep mail adres, restore mail. And live a happy life?
- jlgaddis 6y ago> Get yourself a lifetime domain name. AFAIK, the longest term you can register a domain for is 10 years -- and I believe some TLDs have much shorter limits.
- vezycash 6y agoDid you attach a phone number to the account? I had a similar issue with an outlook account I abandoned for a few years. They claimed that the account had been used to send spam (a bloody lie.) It was an account I used for RECEIVING spam (I don't see how that's a violation of terms of service). They simply wanted collect my phone number. Try to go through the recovery process. They might simply be trying to get your phone number.
- _Understated_ 6y agoI did but they've outright shut the door on me now. I've periodically had to re-validate where they send me a text message but this is the first time they've locked me out completely
- Stierlitz 6y agohttps://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook_com/forum/oaccount-omyinfo/weve-noticed-some-unusual-activity-in-your/1cd074db-6ef2-4457-80e4-079df829f271 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook_com/forum/oaccou...
- 88840-8855 6y agoI was in a similar situation. My outlook.com account was locked because I was violating their "no nudity" policy and some random naked girls (legal aged ofc!) were uploaded to skydrive. This happened several years ago. I lost everything and couldnt access any mails. After trying everything possible online, I wrote Microsoft a letter. A real letter on paper. Several weeks later I got a reply that they could do nothing as their tos was violated. FUCK microsoft. Since then I am very careful with centralization of accounts. I am using many different email and cloud provider today and despise people who are happy that e.g. apple is today providing everything: from music over cloud to movies, mail, pay and so much more.
- dhimes 6y agoI had no idea they had a no-nudity TOS. It is US-centric, i.e. topless females is considered nudity? What about males?
- McDyver 6y agoWhat about onions? [0] Not an email provider, but AI enforcing TOS can go badly... [0] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/onions-too-sexy-for-facebook-1.5750881 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/onions-...
- fortran77 6y agoThey told you specifically it's because you use a VPN to connect, or is this your guess?
- NickBusey 6y agoI have been hosting my own email for a while now. It has it's quirks, and outbound can be hard, but for just getting password reset emails and the like, it does everything I need it to. I use my own domain, with a catch-all for everything on the domain, that way I can just make up emails on the fly. 'nick.apps.hackernews@mydomain.com' is a pretty common set up for me. I deploy the mailu service to a small home server using HomelabOS, configured to use a $5 Digital Ocean droplet as a bastion server to prevent needing to mess with dynamic DNS, port forwards, and firewall circumvention.
- Spooky23 6y agoRight now there is a lot of activity around the US elections and ransomware campaigns where VPN devices are a common source of traffic. Many places will discard the traffic due to elevated risk. Frankly, the public VPN services are pretty pointless anyway.
- giomasce 6y agoIt's unfortunately late by now for you, but I would suggest to have a local copy of all your data in the cloud. I use offlineimap to download all my email boxes each hour and commit them in a git repository. If the lock me out, at least I keep my data.
- tzs 6y ago> I've been thinking about it over the last several days and, legitimately, the only possible recourse is to run your own email server. A possible alternative that is almost as good might be to get your own domain and use some email service like Fastmail with that domain. Have something that regularly downloads all your mail from the service (which might be as simple as configuring your normal email client to download and retain everything). If you ever have a problem with Fastmail, sign up for some other email service that allows you to use your own domain, such as Protonmail, and change your domain's mail-related records to point to that service. Your incoming email will be down during the time it takes to sign up for the other service and change your domain setup, but hopefully getting tossed off email services is a once in a blue moon event for you so. (If you do this, make sure that changing domain settings at your name service provider does not depend on receiving email at your domain. It would be very irritating to not be able to point your mail-related records to the new provider because your name service provider is sending a TOTP token to your old email provider).
- guessmyname 6y ago> Microsoft blocked my outlook.com account for using a VPN. Any ideas? […] The reason is that I use NordVPN to connect to the internet. That is weird. Are you confident NordVPN caused the problem? I ask because I also have a NordVPN subscription. I have it for more than a year now. I keep it running 24/7 and switch countries every 2-3 days. I visit all the major websites, and I have never had significant problems with my accounts. Google Search is probably the only website (that I remember) that blocks NordVPN IP addresses, but I connect to a different server and reload the page to continue. When I switch between NordVPN servers, I do it across countries. For example, I browse the Internet for a couple of hours from France and then switch to a Japan server. It is impossible to travel between France and Japan in less than 5 minutes, so, Outlook —among other companies— flag these connections as highly suspicious. However, aside from a security alert, I have never had any problems connecting to my online accounts. Even my banks are cool with NordVPN. I am not saying NordVPN was not the cause of your problems. Anything is possible. It would help me, though, to know what server(s) you selected to avoid connecting to them. You can find them in the NordVPN connection history or system logs. I hope you recover access to your account. Thanks in advance.
- _Understated_ 6y agoDefinitely due to NordVPN. For the last several weeks, I was getting issues where it detected "suspicious activity"... now, I am using Outlook on the desktop and it stopped me logging in. So, I would click the link and it would take me to my Microsoft account to verify my phone number. I'd get sent a text and that would be it. When I don't use Nord due to forgetting to switch it on, it works fine 100% of the time. Now, they just shut the door on me. I can't even change my Amazon email address because they need to send a confirmation email to my current address which I can't get in to!!!!!!