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The headline says "masks work", then the article redefines masks to exclude the things that many people are wearing, and then adds further criteria that rules o
by DanBC 6y ago
The headline says "masks work", then the article redefines masks to exclude the things that many people are wearing, and then adds further criteria that rules out most other people. It then fails to take into account research that shows that cotton masks become saturated with exhaled moisture and perspiration, and that stops their filtering properties. It also fails to take into account reductions in social distancing or handwashing.
So, yes, if we have a tight definition of both "masks" and "work" we can say that masks work. But we don't care if a piece of fabric can catch droplets, we care if public use of masks in a pandemic helps slow the spread of that disease.
- petulla 6y agoWhich cotton mask study did you read? This one found cotton masks were ok https://www.marketwatch.com/story/new-study-finds-many-homemade-masks-are-effective-at-blocking-spread-of-coronavirus-but-bandanas-or-gaiters-are-not-2020-08-09 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/new-study-finds-many-homem...
- DanBC 6y agoThis article is a demonstration of a method of mask testing. It's not a test of masks. From the authors "As the title indicates, our work focused on developing a simple technique for mask evaluation that can be replicated at other labs, rather than a comprehensive mask test. They do not test how long the masks stop droplet transmission. Other studies say that these masks start losing effectiveness as soon as you put them on, and most masks are ineffective after a few hours. And, again, we do not care if masks stop droplet emission. (It's very likely that they do). What we care about is whether the public wearing masks in a pandemic stops virus transmission, and at the moment we don't know if it does or not.
- petulla 6y agoThe same article says: “This is a very powerful visual tool to raise awareness that a very simple masks, like these homemade cotton masks, do really well to stop the majority of these respiratory droplets,” Fischer told CNN. The study itself tests 14 masks. You're just reinforcing your priors ...
- 40four 6y agoSince you sound skeptical, here is some real hard numbers from my home state. Statistical analysis from the South Carolina Department of Health. https://scdhec.gov/news-releases/dhecs-third-data-analysis-mask-ordinances-continues-show-effectiveness-masks-latest https://scdhec.gov/news-releases/dhecs-third-data-analysis-m... https://scdhec.gov/news-releases/update-mask-requirement-data-reinforces-masks-work-neck-gaiters-not-effective-latest https://scdhec.gov/news-releases/update-mask-requirement-dat...
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- LasEspuelas 6y agoI also fail to see how saturation leads to a decrease in filtration. I could imagine other scenarios in which efficacy of the mask would be reduced when saturated, but not because it stops filtering.
- seattle_spring 6y agoFurther, I fail to see how a mask could become saturated so quickly. I'm usually only wearing a mask for 5 or 10 min at a time.
- DanBC 6y agoRight, and that's a bad thing. Mask proponents say we need to wear a mask to prevent us spreading our covid to other people. When you touch your mask you transfer covid to your hands. You then need to clean your hands immediately. You may have excellent hand hygiene, but we know (because there are hundreds of studies on this) that most people do not wash their hands often enough, and don't wash their hands properly. If the science is telling you to wear a mask it's telling you to keep it on and stop touching it.
- Accacin 6y agoI'm pretty fed up of people acting so incredibly arrogant. Unless you can show evidence that wearing a mask is dangerous, and makes things worse, then just wear a mask. Stop trying to find reasons to prove everyone wrong. Some data someone else in the thread posted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24952278 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24952278
- dx87 6y agoThe Surgeon General said back in March that wearing masks increases the chance of spreading covid because people aren't trained on how to use them correctly and it gives them a false sense of security. https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/health/surgeon-general-coronavirus-masks-risk-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/health/surgeon-general-corona...
- klyrs 6y agoYes, that was a concern back in March. Back in March, when we had very little understanding of transmission and when hospitals were facing dire mask shortages. What has the surgeon general said since then? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-surgeon-general-jerome-adams-wearing-masks-face-the-nation/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-surgeon-general-jer... Are people on HN actually too stupid to learn how to properly wear a mask in 8 months time? I don't believe that. I think that each of us is smart enough to do that research and train ourselves.
- gnusty_gnurc 6y agoYou can characterize what you’re saying to simply: “just comply, citizen” That attitude is precisely what’s wrong with this situation. An elite who’s prescribing technocrat-informed decisions instead of offering balanced and neutral scientific conclusions. Meanwhile you can point to a long line of completely wrong technocratic advice during the pandemic. Always make sure you’re able to say “I might be completely wrong.”
- klyrs 6y ago
- fooblat 6y agoThe dutch studied this and found that in the real world mask requirements caused no change in social distancing compliance[1]. 1. https://nscr.nl/naleving-drukte-en-social-distancing-tijdens-de-mondkapjesplicht/ https://nscr.nl/naleving-drukte-en-social-distancing-tijdens...
- 762236 6y agoI read the same article as you. They did not redefine masks, nor add further criteria. They chose a model that applies to masks of any fiber and weave but with different filtration efficiencies.