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You're basically arguing against unions. There is nothing proven that unions result in "They have no incentive to do anything other than the minimum and extrac

You're basically arguing against unions. There is nothing proven that unions result in "They have no incentive to do anything other than the minimum and extract from their guild monopolization of that bit of infrastructure." So most of what you said is purely speculation. There is incentive to do "anything other than the minimum", it's called a decent wage.

jariel 6y ago
First - it's not 'speculative' - we know what 'monopolies' are, and if a Guild or Union has a monopoly over a chunk of the economy, we understand at least some of the implications. Second - in this case, it's obvious that Unions are not 'about a decent wage' - rather '2-3x' the market wage for a given job. Is it going to work out if the guy at the 7/11 is getting paid $100K as well? Third - this isn't about 'Unions' (it never is) it's about power. I actually support most unions wherein they are trying to form, usually there's good reason for a union when it's trying to come into formation - but when Unions have more power over time, they are literally the 'owning and controlling entity that can extract most of the wealth' in a system. With respect to Electricity and other public utilities - these Guilds/Unions are actually the most powerful artifact in the equation, and to contemplate 'how to improve the system' without dealing with this issue is not going to work. The 'carrier cost' is now the primary charge on most electricity bills, i.e. you're paying for the transport fees as much as the the power itself - those charges will increase to offset any of the gains in cheaper electricity. Electricity could drop to 6 cents a Kw/h tommorow but the carrier fees will rise considerably - why? Because they can do that - it's a function of the 'market power' of the Guild. One of the interesting and not of talked about revolutions which may be on the horizon is the possibility of a 'gridless' future for electricity - or rather - considerable less dependency on grids. Certainly with Hydrogen as a fuel source, or even less dependency on 'local grids' whereby you can talk your 'Household batteries' to a charging station every so often as opposed to having lines right to the house. This might make for a more efficient system which incentivizes truly competitive pricing on electricity and moves a monopolizing entity towards having less power. The gird is a 'single point of access' and it's therefore a very potent means for entities to extract all sorts of wealth wether it's private, public, Unions etc. so we should seek to avoid those dynamics.
jariel 6y ago
Edit: I should add, the Ontario Teacher's Union is a decent example of something that works; teachers have generally quite a bit of education and decent benefits, wages above prevailing but 'consistent'. It's quite a broad field with somewhere near reasonable outcomes - the difference being the absence of a 'total lock' on an 'essential good' (there are many school boards, private/mixed etc.) So each situation has different dynamics but within Energy there are problems.

jariel 6y ago

First - it's not 'speculative' - we know what 'monopolies' are, and if a Guild or Union has a monopoly over a chunk of the economy, we understand at least some of the implications. Second - in this case, it's obvious that Unions are not 'about a decent wage' - rather '2-3x' the market wage for a given job. Is it going to work out if the guy at the 7/11 is getting paid $100K as well? Third - this isn't about 'Unions' (it never is) it's about power. I actually support most unions wherein they are trying to form, usually there's good reason for a union when it's trying to come into formation - but when Unions have more power over time, they are literally the 'owning and controlling entity that can extract most of the wealth' in a system. With respect to Electricity and other public utilities - these Guilds/Unions are actually the most powerful artifact in the equation, and to contemplate 'how to improve the system' without dealing with this issue is not going to work. The 'carrier cost' is now the primary charge on most electricity bills, i.e. you're paying for the transport fees as much as the the power itself - those charges will increase to offset any of the gains in cheaper electricity. Electricity could drop to 6 cents a Kw/h tommorow but the carrier fees will rise considerably - why? Because they can do that - it's a function of the 'market power' of the Guild. One of the interesting and not of talked about revolutions which may be on the horizon is the possibility of a 'gridless' future for electricity - or rather - considerable less dependency on grids. Certainly with Hydrogen as a fuel source, or even less dependency on 'local grids' whereby you can talk your 'Household batteries' to a charging station every so often as opposed to having lines right to the house. This might make for a more efficient system which incentivizes truly competitive pricing on electricity and moves a monopolizing entity towards having less power. The gird is a 'single point of access' and it's therefore a very potent means for entities to extract all sorts of wealth wether it's private, public, Unions etc. so we should seek to avoid those dynamics.

jariel 6y ago

Edit: I should add, the Ontario Teacher's Union is a decent example of something that works; teachers have generally quite a bit of education and decent benefits, wages above prevailing but 'consistent'. It's quite a broad field with somewhere near reasonable outcomes - the difference being the absence of a 'total lock' on an 'essential good' (there are many school boards, private/mixed etc.) So each situation has different dynamics but within Energy there are problems.