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Turkey and its brotherly nation, Azerbaijan are currently at war with Armenia trying to ethnically cleanse the Nagorno-Karabagh region. Tragically, US politics

Turkey and its brotherly nation, Azerbaijan are currently at war with Armenia trying to ethnically cleanse the Nagorno-Karabagh region. Tragically, US politics have overshadowed this war.

ulucs 6y ago
Maybe Armenia should not be illegally occupying Ajerbaijan territory if they don't want to be forcibly kicked out. This is simply war against occupation.
- speeder 6y ago
  This, Crimea, and a ton of other places near Russia, have "occupation" because some stupid random URSS leader gave random territories away to random governors, because the logic was: "it is all part of URSS anyway". So Nagorno-Nakahbath: It been Armenian for THOUSANDS of years, there are structures there that are Armenian and 2000+ years old, also the place is full of the earliest christian churches (that were also armenian). People that say Armenians must leave there because it is not theirs, are either ignorant of how the place became part of Azerbaijan (URSS gave it to Azerbaijan to appease Turkey) or are just anti-Armenian. Crimea is a similar situation, kinda. The land been historically Tatar, but Russia invaded and took it in 1700something, it since then been a major Russian military area, when URSS had a Ukranian president, he gave Crimea to Uktraine, again thinking it wouldn't make a difference, not thinking URSS wouldn't last forever.
  - ulucs 6y ago
    I'm just going off international recognition, and saying nothing like Hojali is going off right now. It's also a bit absurd to take territory by force, and claim "ethnic cleansing" when others try to take it back.
    - speeder 6y ago
      I just explained to you, that they were ALREADY there, they didn't take it by force, they already lived there, for litearlly thousands of years (we have archeological evidence for at least 2 thousand, thus thousands, in plural). Legally the place does belong to Azerbaijan, because URSS gave it to them to appease Turkey, but de-facto it was never Azeri land. Note: I am talking about Nagorno-Nakbath proper, not the lands around it.
      - ulucs 6y ago
        Looking at historical maps, there has been Azeri control over the lands since the 9th century: https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_950.jpg https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_950.jpg (and subsequently, https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_1100.jpg https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_1100.jpg https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_13th-14th_Centuries.jpg https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_13th-14th_Centuries.jpg https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_15th_Century.jpg https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_15th_Century.jpg https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_16th_Century.jpg https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_16th_Century.jpg https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_17th_Century.jpg https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_17th_Century.jpg ) Following that, it's either Azeri, Ottoman or Russian control until 1919 - the end of WW1. Even the Armenian vilayets of the Ottomans don't include Karabakh: https://www.armenian-history.com/images/maps/Eastern_provinces_Ottoman-Empire-Western%20Armenia.jpg https://www.armenian-history.com/images/maps/Eastern_provinc... That said, I'm not well informed about this topic and I'm just going off the maps I find. Although the source also has maps of Armenian genocide, so I don't expect them to have an anti-Armenian bias. Also by force, I'm referencing the previous Karabakh war of 1993. You can't deny the existence of force there.
        kingofpandora 6y ago
        A few things... First, there were no "Armenain vilayets" in the Ottoman Empire. It was a term people in Europe and USA used to define the six vilayets where there were the most Armenians. It was not an official designation. Second, Nagorno-Karabakh was not one of the "Armenian vilayets" because it wasn't part of the Ottoman Empire. It was part of the Russian Empire. Finally, Armenians predate Azeris (and Turks) in all the areas we are speaking about and were the majority in many of them up until the Armenian Genocide. In a few, they are still the majority to this day. Nagorno-Karabakh is one of those.
  - bushin 6y ago
    I just hope Turkey and Azerbaijan restore their territorial integrity.
agumonkey 6y ago
And in this era it's hard to track all the catastrophes ..
- cblconfederate 6y ago
  Arguably, when there is a US election on the internet, it's hard to track anything at all.
  - agumonkey 6y ago
    No really, even beyond that, I barely see any mention of the US election and I can't remember what happened two weeks ago. New ecological disaster, hate crime, terrorism, pandemics.. it's accelerating.
mesuutt 6y ago
The media is liars. The whole world accuses Azerbaijan and Turks of murder, but this is not true. Azerbaijan has never attacked a civilian settlement. But Armenia attacks civilians every day, as it did in the past. Turks do not kill civilians in their ethics. Karabag is an Azerbaijani territory and was occupied by Armenia in the ~ 1990s. They attacked the villages and killed them without children or women. Armenians swallowed the skin of the children, They was cutting off the belly of the pregnant woman and bet on whether the child to be born was a boy or a girl. Do you know? For ~ 30 years, Azerbaijan defended its rightful case, demanded its land back, but Europe remained silent. https://icdn.ensonhaber.com/resimler/galeri/15_4476.jpg https://icdn.ensonhaber.com/resimler/galeri/15_4476.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khojaly_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khojaly_massacre https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkZHOlQtYO8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkZHOlQtYO8 https://www.ensonhaber.com/galeri/hocali-katliami-uzerinden-24-yil-gecti https://www.ensonhaber.com/galeri/hocali-katliami-uzerinden-...
- kingofpandora 6y ago
  So .... do you not see any parallels with Cyprus and Karabakh?
  - mesuutt 6y ago
    What happened at Cyprus?

Turkey and its brotherly nation, Azerbaijan are currently at war with Armenia trying to ethnically cleanse the Nagorno-Karabagh region. Tragically, US politics have overshadowed this war.

ulucs 6y ago

Maybe Armenia should not be illegally occupying Ajerbaijan territory if they don't want to be forcibly kicked out. This is simply war against occupation.

speeder 6y ago
This, Crimea, and a ton of other places near Russia, have "occupation" because some stupid random URSS leader gave random territories away to random governors, because the logic was: "it is all part of URSS anyway". So Nagorno-Nakahbath: It been Armenian for THOUSANDS of years, there are structures there that are Armenian and 2000+ years old, also the place is full of the earliest christian churches (that were also armenian). People that say Armenians must leave there because it is not theirs, are either ignorant of how the place became part of Azerbaijan (URSS gave it to Azerbaijan to appease Turkey) or are just anti-Armenian. Crimea is a similar situation, kinda. The land been historically Tatar, but Russia invaded and took it in 1700something, it since then been a major Russian military area, when URSS had a Ukranian president, he gave Crimea to Uktraine, again thinking it wouldn't make a difference, not thinking URSS wouldn't last forever.
- ulucs 6y ago
  I'm just going off international recognition, and saying nothing like Hojali is going off right now. It's also a bit absurd to take territory by force, and claim "ethnic cleansing" when others try to take it back.
  - speeder 6y ago
    I just explained to you, that they were ALREADY there, they didn't take it by force, they already lived there, for litearlly thousands of years (we have archeological evidence for at least 2 thousand, thus thousands, in plural). Legally the place does belong to Azerbaijan, because URSS gave it to them to appease Turkey, but de-facto it was never Azeri land. Note: I am talking about Nagorno-Nakbath proper, not the lands around it.
    - ulucs 6y ago
      Looking at historical maps, there has been Azeri control over the lands since the 9th century: https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_950.jpg https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_950.jpg (and subsequently, https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_1100.jpg https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_1100.jpg https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_13th-14th_Centuries.jpg https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_13th-14th_Centuries.jpg https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_15th_Century.jpg https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_15th_Century.jpg https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_16th_Century.jpg https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_16th_Century.jpg https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_17th_Century.jpg https://www.edmaps.com/Azerbaijan_17th_Century.jpg ) Following that, it's either Azeri, Ottoman or Russian control until 1919 - the end of WW1. Even the Armenian vilayets of the Ottomans don't include Karabakh: https://www.armenian-history.com/images/maps/Eastern_provinces_Ottoman-Empire-Western%20Armenia.jpg https://www.armenian-history.com/images/maps/Eastern_provinc... That said, I'm not well informed about this topic and I'm just going off the maps I find. Although the source also has maps of Armenian genocide, so I don't expect them to have an anti-Armenian bias. Also by force, I'm referencing the previous Karabakh war of 1993. You can't deny the existence of force there.
      - kingofpandora 6y ago
        A few things... First, there were no "Armenain vilayets" in the Ottoman Empire. It was a term people in Europe and USA used to define the six vilayets where there were the most Armenians. It was not an official designation. Second, Nagorno-Karabakh was not one of the "Armenian vilayets" because it wasn't part of the Ottoman Empire. It was part of the Russian Empire. Finally, Armenians predate Azeris (and Turks) in all the areas we are speaking about and were the majority in many of them up until the Armenian Genocide. In a few, they are still the majority to this day. Nagorno-Karabakh is one of those.
- bushin 6y ago
  I just hope Turkey and Azerbaijan restore their territorial integrity.

agumonkey 6y ago

And in this era it's hard to track all the catastrophes ..

cblconfederate 6y ago
Arguably, when there is a US election on the internet, it's hard to track anything at all.
- agumonkey 6y ago
  No really, even beyond that, I barely see any mention of the US election and I can't remember what happened two weeks ago. New ecological disaster, hate crime, terrorism, pandemics.. it's accelerating.

mesuutt 6y ago

The media is liars. The whole world accuses Azerbaijan and Turks of murder, but this is not true. Azerbaijan has never attacked a civilian settlement. But Armenia attacks civilians every day, as it did in the past. Turks do not kill civilians in their ethics. Karabag is an Azerbaijani territory and was occupied by Armenia in the ~ 1990s. They attacked the villages and killed them without children or women. Armenians swallowed the skin of the children, They was cutting off the belly of the pregnant woman and bet on whether the child to be born was a boy or a girl. Do you know? For ~ 30 years, Azerbaijan defended its rightful case, demanded its land back, but Europe remained silent. https://icdn.ensonhaber.com/resimler/galeri/15_4476.jpg https://icdn.ensonhaber.com/resimler/galeri/15_4476.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khojaly_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khojaly_massacre https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkZHOlQtYO8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkZHOlQtYO8 https://www.ensonhaber.com/galeri/hocali-katliami-uzerinden-24-yil-gecti https://www.ensonhaber.com/galeri/hocali-katliami-uzerinden-...

kingofpandora 6y ago
So .... do you not see any parallels with Cyprus and Karabakh?
- mesuutt 6y ago
  What happened at Cyprus?