5 ms·

Grey Wolves are also popular in Germany. There are serious reports that they make efforts to infiltrate politics / army / police forces. It's simple: These are

by nisa 6y ago

Grey Wolves are also popular in Germany. There are serious reports that they make efforts to infiltrate politics / army / police forces. It's simple: These are fascists.

lancebeet 6y ago
They seem to have at least some influence in the Turkish community in Sweden as well. The former Swedish minister for housing Mehmet Kaplan was ousted for having association with them.
inglor_cz 6y ago
I think the right word is "infiltrate". Not just army and police, but sports clubs, refugee centers, city halls, everything. It is the long arm of Ankara and if they were Russians or North Koreans, they would have been proscribed by the German authorities a long time ago. Unfortunately, their dangerousness was not recognized early enough, so they were allowed to expand. What to do with this cancer now, that is the question.
- nisa 6y ago
  thanks, fixed it.
wsc981 6y ago
Erdogan is a dangerous man. He once recited an Islamic poem including the lines [0]: > "The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers..." I am sure Germany has to be very careful in dealings with Erdogan, since Germany has such a large amount of Turkish migrants and thus they could quite easily destabilise the country. A few years ago in The Netherlands the Turkish people started large scale protests due to a Turkish minister being denied entry. The Turkish people clearly identified themselves as Turks first and foremost, since they were carrying the Turkish flags during their protests [1]. Turkey maintains a strong kind of grip on its Turkish citizens abroad using state-funded Diyanet mosques [2] and allowing dual citizenship [3] - children born from Turkish countries living in a foreign country receive the Turkish citizenship by default. --- [0]: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/-the-minarets-are-our-bayonets- https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/-the-minarets-are-our-ba... [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Dutch–Turkish_diplomatic_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Dutch–Turkish_diplomatic_... [2]: https://www.dw.com/en/erdogan-in-germany-what-you-need-to-know-about-ditib-mosque-association/a-45676937 https://www.dw.com/en/erdogan-in-germany-what-you-need-to-kn... [3]: https://www.government.nl/topics/dutch-nationality/question-and-answer/can-i-renounce-my-turkish-nationality-if-i-haven-t-completed-my-compulsory-military-service https://www.government.nl/topics/dutch-nationality/question-...
- raverbashing 6y ago
  About 3, they might allow it but several countries don't, notably Germany (for Turkish descendants, if their citizenship is not revoked) Of course the left doesn't like this as apparently being cannon fodder for one government while being a citizen of another is cool so...
- cm2187 6y ago
  I think the world is progressively realising that islamists are taking over the muslim world. What is unhelpful is that many confuse islamists and jihadists, which are a tiny fraction of islamists. Erdogan is a muslim brother. You can do the exercise (I did) of going through every muslim country on the map, from Morocco to Indonesia, and lookup the recent political history of that country on wikipedia. In every single of these countries, no exception, either: - the Islamists are in power or one of the largest political parties (Iran, Saudi Arabia, Marocco, Turkey, Pakistan, etc) - the Islamists were one of the largest political forces but have been banned (doesn't mean they are not present) (Jordan, Algeria, etc) - the Islamists are one of main the parties to a civil war (Libya, Syria, Yemen, etc) I don't know what can be done in the west. I see this as a kind of repeat of communism. It's an idea which time has come. You don't get people to change their mind by force. They need to experience why it sucks before turning against the idea (in that respect Iran is probably leading the way, where the islamists seem to increasingly lose support of the population). And it doesn't mean it's a homogenous block (neither was communism).
  - enriquto 6y ago
    > I don't know what can be done in the west. For one, we could stop aiding islamists to overthrow non-islamist governments, as we did for example in Libya.
    - Vosporos 6y ago
      Gotta ask the CIA to stop their games as well
  - msert56 6y ago
mrtksn 6y ago
They are trouble in Turkey too, key institutions in the country are often a battleground of infiltration between sects and just before the Gulenists, the dominant force in the police was the Grey Wolves. Since the exodus of the Gulenists, the rumors are that Grey Wolves are back in town. Whoever wins, it usually results of abusing their position for political and financial gains and we learn about what happened after the institution changes hands(For example, only after the battle between Erdogan and the Gulenists, evidence came into light of the police involvement of the assassination of an Armenian Journalist, probably intended as a political manipulation). Germany should be very careful, having loyalty to an external charismatic leader and acting as an organisation within an organisation is unfortunately commonplace among Turks. They are not majority but tend to be the more passionate ones.

by nisa 6y ago

Grey Wolves are also popular in Germany. There are serious reports that they make efforts to infiltrate politics / army / police forces. It's simple: These are fascists.

lancebeet 6y ago

They seem to have at least some influence in the Turkish community in Sweden as well. The former Swedish minister for housing Mehmet Kaplan was ousted for having association with them.

inglor_cz 6y ago

I think the right word is "infiltrate". Not just army and police, but sports clubs, refugee centers, city halls, everything. It is the long arm of Ankara and if they were Russians or North Koreans, they would have been proscribed by the German authorities a long time ago. Unfortunately, their dangerousness was not recognized early enough, so they were allowed to expand. What to do with this cancer now, that is the question.

nisa 6y ago
thanks, fixed it.

wsc981 6y ago

Erdogan is a dangerous man. He once recited an Islamic poem including the lines [0]: > "The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers..." I am sure Germany has to be very careful in dealings with Erdogan, since Germany has such a large amount of Turkish migrants and thus they could quite easily destabilise the country. A few years ago in The Netherlands the Turkish people started large scale protests due to a Turkish minister being denied entry. The Turkish people clearly identified themselves as Turks first and foremost, since they were carrying the Turkish flags during their protests [1]. Turkey maintains a strong kind of grip on its Turkish citizens abroad using state-funded Diyanet mosques [2] and allowing dual citizenship [3] - children born from Turkish countries living in a foreign country receive the Turkish citizenship by default. --- [0]: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/-the-minarets-are-our-bayonets- https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/-the-minarets-are-our-ba... [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Dutch–Turkish_diplomatic_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Dutch–Turkish_diplomatic_... [2]: https://www.dw.com/en/erdogan-in-germany-what-you-need-to-know-about-ditib-mosque-association/a-45676937 https://www.dw.com/en/erdogan-in-germany-what-you-need-to-kn... [3]: https://www.government.nl/topics/dutch-nationality/question-and-answer/can-i-renounce-my-turkish-nationality-if-i-haven-t-completed-my-compulsory-military-service https://www.government.nl/topics/dutch-nationality/question-...

raverbashing 6y ago
About 3, they might allow it but several countries don't, notably Germany (for Turkish descendants, if their citizenship is not revoked) Of course the left doesn't like this as apparently being cannon fodder for one government while being a citizen of another is cool so...
cm2187 6y ago
I think the world is progressively realising that islamists are taking over the muslim world. What is unhelpful is that many confuse islamists and jihadists, which are a tiny fraction of islamists. Erdogan is a muslim brother. You can do the exercise (I did) of going through every muslim country on the map, from Morocco to Indonesia, and lookup the recent political history of that country on wikipedia. In every single of these countries, no exception, either: - the Islamists are in power or one of the largest political parties (Iran, Saudi Arabia, Marocco, Turkey, Pakistan, etc) - the Islamists were one of the largest political forces but have been banned (doesn't mean they are not present) (Jordan, Algeria, etc) - the Islamists are one of main the parties to a civil war (Libya, Syria, Yemen, etc) I don't know what can be done in the west. I see this as a kind of repeat of communism. It's an idea which time has come. You don't get people to change their mind by force. They need to experience why it sucks before turning against the idea (in that respect Iran is probably leading the way, where the islamists seem to increasingly lose support of the population). And it doesn't mean it's a homogenous block (neither was communism).
- enriquto 6y ago
  > I don't know what can be done in the west. For one, we could stop aiding islamists to overthrow non-islamist governments, as we did for example in Libya.
  - Vosporos 6y ago
    Gotta ask the CIA to stop their games as well
- msert56 6y ago

mrtksn 6y ago

They are trouble in Turkey too, key institutions in the country are often a battleground of infiltration between sects and just before the Gulenists, the dominant force in the police was the Grey Wolves. Since the exodus of the Gulenists, the rumors are that Grey Wolves are back in town. Whoever wins, it usually results of abusing their position for political and financial gains and we learn about what happened after the institution changes hands(For example, only after the battle between Erdogan and the Gulenists, evidence came into light of the police involvement of the assassination of an Armenian Journalist, probably intended as a political manipulation). Germany should be very careful, having loyalty to an external charismatic leader and acting as an organisation within an organisation is unfortunately commonplace among Turks. They are not majority but tend to be the more passionate ones.