5 ms·

Meanwhile in France: https://www.vice.com/en/article/epddna/turkey-france-armenia-grey-wolves-lyon https://www.vice.com/en/article/epddna/turkey-france-armenia.

Meanwhile in France: https://www.vice.com/en/article/epddna/turkey-france-armenia-grey-wolves-lyon https://www.vice.com/en/article/epddna/turkey-france-armenia....

auggierose 6y ago
There is a difference between suffering from terrorist attacks, and letting it change your way of life so that the NSA can snoop on your citizens in an unprecedented way, and you are starting to build a wall somewhere at the Mexican border.
- jacobwilliamroy 6y ago
  And don't forget we have concentration camps. That's prisons for non-citizens, we also have lots of citizens in prison too. More prisoners per capita than any other country. We are the world's police.
  - 9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
    Well regarding illegal immigration, Europe is straight up fascism. We dump refugees to open prisons on islands. There's not a single country that is so relaxed view on illegal immigration like USA, keeping borders is common sense in the rest of the world, not even a discussion. The immigration crisis was a temporary thing, because there were just too many people coming at once.
    - jacobwilliamroy 6y ago
      Wow. What a shithole. Y'all doing illegal medical procedures on prisoners too? We got illegal medical procedures over here: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/us/ice-hysterectomies-surgeries-georgia.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/us/ice-hysterectomies-sur...
      - 9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
        I dont know, but the article says the women lived as illegal for two decades - that doesn't even happen here. More often than not our 'ice' does the job and people approve it.
        jacobwilliamroy 6y ago
        Here's a brief reality check: the U.S. and its european allies have been exporting crime and terrorism to southwest asia and northeast africa for almost twenty years now, entirely for the benefit of private corporations. And sure, maybe it's more comfortable to go into denial about what really has been happening over the past two decades, but why settle for comfortable denial when you can embrace the whole truth and feel happy? Feel happy that you're where you are, and they're where they are. We're so lucky to have been randomly born in such good circumstances. Think about it. We might have been randomly born in Yemen, and in that case we would have been thoroughly fucked. Do you feel happy? There are a lot of people suffering right now for our benefit. It would be wasteful to feel anything but joy.
        9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
        Trust me, I am because I come from the part of Europe that didn't do as well as west, and I can appreciate even the fact that I'm here and can live freely, I know how much worse it can get.
- corty 6y ago
  Maybe it is not so much the NSA, but German secret services do pretty much snoop everything they can get their noses into. The only reason that they couldn't collect as much as the NSA was inferior technical capability, not a lack of will or legal options. Everything that happened after Snowden and associated scandals was that the formerly "maybe-legal" status quo was written into law as definitely legal... Europe is currently building walls along the southern (Ceuta, Mellila) and southeastern (Greece-Turkey, Hungary) borders, and relying on the mediterranean to act as such. It may not be a concerted effort, European politics is very much split up over the refugee situation. But even in the most pro-refugee countries, enforcing some boundaries and borders is still accepted by a majority.
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  > terrorist attacks, They're not terrorist attacks, it's civil war.
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    For people downvoting my parent post, here's something to research. From reading news reports over the past several decades, there's a pattern of civil war when the Muslim population exceeds 5% in a region, since they want their own community. Political Islam is not compatible with any secular system, and adherents are commanded to destroy competing systems and religions. France's Muslim population is approaching 11%. Already French women are harrassed when walking down the street in many areas outside Paris as Muslim men don't want "gender mixing", and there are continual fatal attacks. It's estimated there have been 31,000 attacks world-wide by Muslims since 9/11. It's odd that I haven't heard any from other religions. If you don't understand the above as civil war rather than terrorism, then you need to do your own research to understand the events that are happening around you. I'd like a reason as to why this is flagged. Everything I said is verifiable.
- lern_too_spel 6y ago
  In the US, that domestic surveillance was shut down and later ruled illegal. In France, it was formally allowed by law. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/06/world/europe/french-legislators-approve-sweeping-intelligence-bill.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/06/world/europe/french-legis... As far as international policy, the French were colonialists in French Indochina, while the US was just red-baited in, so the intentions of the US (though indicative of blundering stupidity) were not as bad.
raverbashing 6y ago
This is the paradox of tolerance (which to me should be what Popper is reminded for)

Meanwhile in France: https://www.vice.com/en/article/epddna/turkey-france-armenia-grey-wolves-lyon https://www.vice.com/en/article/epddna/turkey-france-armenia....

auggierose 6y ago

There is a difference between suffering from terrorist attacks, and letting it change your way of life so that the NSA can snoop on your citizens in an unprecedented way, and you are starting to build a wall somewhere at the Mexican border.

jacobwilliamroy 6y ago
And don't forget we have concentration camps. That's prisons for non-citizens, we also have lots of citizens in prison too. More prisoners per capita than any other country. We are the world's police.
- 9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
  Well regarding illegal immigration, Europe is straight up fascism. We dump refugees to open prisons on islands. There's not a single country that is so relaxed view on illegal immigration like USA, keeping borders is common sense in the rest of the world, not even a discussion. The immigration crisis was a temporary thing, because there were just too many people coming at once.
  - jacobwilliamroy 6y ago
    Wow. What a shithole. Y'all doing illegal medical procedures on prisoners too? We got illegal medical procedures over here: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/us/ice-hysterectomies-surgeries-georgia.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/us/ice-hysterectomies-sur...
    - 9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
      I dont know, but the article says the women lived as illegal for two decades - that doesn't even happen here. More often than not our 'ice' does the job and people approve it.
      - jacobwilliamroy 6y ago
        Here's a brief reality check: the U.S. and its european allies have been exporting crime and terrorism to southwest asia and northeast africa for almost twenty years now, entirely for the benefit of private corporations. And sure, maybe it's more comfortable to go into denial about what really has been happening over the past two decades, but why settle for comfortable denial when you can embrace the whole truth and feel happy? Feel happy that you're where you are, and they're where they are. We're so lucky to have been randomly born in such good circumstances. Think about it. We might have been randomly born in Yemen, and in that case we would have been thoroughly fucked. Do you feel happy? There are a lot of people suffering right now for our benefit. It would be wasteful to feel anything but joy.
        9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
        Trust me, I am because I come from the part of Europe that didn't do as well as west, and I can appreciate even the fact that I'm here and can live freely, I know how much worse it can get.
corty 6y ago
Maybe it is not so much the NSA, but German secret services do pretty much snoop everything they can get their noses into. The only reason that they couldn't collect as much as the NSA was inferior technical capability, not a lack of will or legal options. Everything that happened after Snowden and associated scandals was that the formerly "maybe-legal" status quo was written into law as definitely legal... Europe is currently building walls along the southern (Ceuta, Mellila) and southeastern (Greece-Turkey, Hungary) borders, and relying on the mediterranean to act as such. It may not be a concerted effort, European politics is very much split up over the refugee situation. But even in the most pro-refugee countries, enforcing some boundaries and borders is still accepted by a majority.
redis_mlc 6y ago
> terrorist attacks, They're not terrorist attacks, it's civil war.
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  For people downvoting my parent post, here's something to research. From reading news reports over the past several decades, there's a pattern of civil war when the Muslim population exceeds 5% in a region, since they want their own community. Political Islam is not compatible with any secular system, and adherents are commanded to destroy competing systems and religions. France's Muslim population is approaching 11%. Already French women are harrassed when walking down the street in many areas outside Paris as Muslim men don't want "gender mixing", and there are continual fatal attacks. It's estimated there have been 31,000 attacks world-wide by Muslims since 9/11. It's odd that I haven't heard any from other religions. If you don't understand the above as civil war rather than terrorism, then you need to do your own research to understand the events that are happening around you. I'd like a reason as to why this is flagged. Everything I said is verifiable.
lern_too_spel 6y ago
In the US, that domestic surveillance was shut down and later ruled illegal. In France, it was formally allowed by law. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/06/world/europe/french-legislators-approve-sweeping-intelligence-bill.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/06/world/europe/french-legis... As far as international policy, the French were colonialists in French Indochina, while the US was just red-baited in, so the intentions of the US (though indicative of blundering stupidity) were not as bad.

raverbashing 6y ago

This is the paradox of tolerance (which to me should be what Popper is reminded for)