8 ms·

We left the UK for Portland expecting a liberal dream. That wasn’t the reality

35 points by auggierose 6y ago

auggierose 6y ago
I think people in Europe underestimate just what a CRAZY place the US is. It's basically a third-world country with a first-world economy. You feel unsafe on the streets, and you have to be alert all the time. A lot of people in the US are just plain nuts, just look at who they voted for. Obviously, its positive sides are also crazy good. Before Trump, they voted for Obama. I guess it is a place for young people and gamblers.
- sebmellen 6y ago
  Meanwhile in France: https://www.vice.com/en/article/epddna/turkey-france-armenia-grey-wolves-lyon https://www.vice.com/en/article/epddna/turkey-france-armenia....
  - auggierose 6y ago
    There is a difference between suffering from terrorist attacks, and letting it change your way of life so that the NSA can snoop on your citizens in an unprecedented way, and you are starting to build a wall somewhere at the Mexican border.
    - jacobwilliamroy 6y ago
      And don't forget we have concentration camps. That's prisons for non-citizens, we also have lots of citizens in prison too. More prisoners per capita than any other country. We are the world's police.
      - 9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
        Well regarding illegal immigration, Europe is straight up fascism. We dump refugees to open prisons on islands. There's not a single country that is so relaxed view on illegal immigration like USA, keeping borders is common sense in the rest of the world, not even a discussion. The immigration crisis was a temporary thing, because there were just too many people coming at once.
        jacobwilliamroy 6y ago
        Wow. What a shithole. Y'all doing illegal medical procedures on prisoners too? We got illegal medical procedures over here: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/us/ice-hysterectomies-surgeries-georgia.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/us/ice-hysterectomies-sur...
        9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
        I dont know, but the article says the women lived as illegal for two decades - that doesn't even happen here. More often than not our 'ice' does the job and people approve it.
        jacobwilliamroy 6y ago
        Here's a brief reality check: the U.S. and its european allies have been exporting crime and terrorism to southwest asia and northeast africa for almost twenty years now, entirely for the benefit of private corporations. And sure, maybe it's more comfortable to go into denial about what really has been happening over the past two decades, but why settle for comfortable denial when you can embrace the whole truth and feel happy? Feel happy that you're where you are, and they're where they are. We're so lucky to have been randomly born in such good circumstances. Think about it. We might have been randomly born in Yemen, and in that case we would have been thoroughly fucked. Do you feel happy? There are a lot of people suffering right now for our benefit. It would be wasteful to feel anything but joy.
        9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
    - corty 6y ago
      Maybe it is not so much the NSA, but German secret services do pretty much snoop everything they can get their noses into. The only reason that they couldn't collect as much as the NSA was inferior technical capability, not a lack of will or legal options. Everything that happened after Snowden and associated scandals was that the formerly "maybe-legal" status quo was written into law as definitely legal... Europe is currently building walls along the southern (Ceuta, Mellila) and southeastern (Greece-Turkey, Hungary) borders, and relying on the mediterranean to act as such. It may not be a concerted effort, European politics is very much split up over the refugee situation. But even in the most pro-refugee countries, enforcing some boundaries and borders is still accepted by a majority.
    - redis_mlc 6y ago
      > terrorist attacks, They're not terrorist attacks, it's civil war.
      - redis_mlc 6y ago
        For people downvoting my parent post, here's something to research. From reading news reports over the past several decades, there's a pattern of civil war when the Muslim population exceeds 5% in a region, since they want their own community. Political Islam is not compatible with any secular system, and adherents are commanded to destroy competing systems and religions. France's Muslim population is approaching 11%. Already French women are harrassed when walking down the street in many areas outside Paris as Muslim men don't want "gender mixing", and there are continual fatal attacks. It's estimated there have been 31,000 attacks world-wide by Muslims since 9/11. It's odd that I haven't heard any from other religions. If you don't understand the above as civil war rather than terrorism, then you need to do your own research to understand the events that are happening around you. I'd like a reason as to why this is flagged. Everything I said is verifiable.
    - lern_too_spel 6y ago
      In the US, that domestic surveillance was shut down and later ruled illegal. In France, it was formally allowed by law. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/06/world/europe/french-legislators-approve-sweeping-intelligence-bill.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/06/world/europe/french-legis... As far as international policy, the French were colonialists in French Indochina, while the US was just red-baited in, so the intentions of the US (though indicative of blundering stupidity) were not as bad.
  - raverbashing 6y ago
    This is the paradox of tolerance (which to me should be what Popper is reminded for)
- bobobob420 6y ago
  Lol. You clearly don’t know anything about Europe or you are a European who uses Google to understand what it means to live in America. People in Europe are AT LEAST as crazy as the “silly Americans” shown on the Telly. I have grown up in America and Europe and there is literally no difference in the people, only how things are shown on tv
  - auggierose 6y ago
    Good for you. I've lived in 3 European countries, and I've studied in the US.
    - throw2010310948 6y ago
      I wouldn't bother trying to convince these people. From being on this board, I am starting to feel that the US is incredibly anti-Europe. I mean, the US is the country that single handedly created the refugee crisis in Europe by bombing the s* out of the middle east and Libya in the past 20 years, while not accepting any of the responsibilities. Also, would a supposed ally (the US) really threaten to invade the Netherlands if the ICC decided to investigate US of its wrongdoings?
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - nine_zeros 6y ago
        The problem is that Americans cannot see any faults or wrong in their society. It is truly blind faith much like a religion. Astonishing levels of stupidity all over.
        bobobob420 6y ago
        One of the dumbest statements I have seen on this website. I genuinely do not know how someone can read this comment and hit the reply button. Nice generalities about Americans. Too bad it literally makes no sense lmao. Try looking at the statements you want to make and assess if you are actually saying something with purpose and intent rather than vomitting in the comment section
- lie7Izei 6y ago
  As an european, I often picture myself US like a mix between european culture and japanese culture. The brand and flavor is european, but everything is pushed to the extreme (from an european point of view) like in Japan.
  - auggierose 6y ago
    Maybe they are both extreme, but I believe they are extreme in very different ways.
  - smitty1e 6y ago
    U.S. culture, at least its inception, is best viewed through a lens of reacting to European culture. Especially in an intellectually-driven anti-aristocratic way. Not the populist anti-aristocratic way of the French Revolution that followed the American Revolution. That pattern seems to repeat itself as an anti-globalist revolution in the present, and one closer to the French Revolution in some aspects.
    - dropit_sphere 6y ago
      Hmm, I will have to keep this in mind.
    - lern_too_spel 6y ago
      US culture is driven by lack of social interaction. People in rural areas have few interactions with others and don't like rules that limit their own immediate freedoms (to not wear masks, to discriminate, etc.) to keep society safe and in harmony. Due to this effect, older big cities are more "European," newer cities are less "European," and outside of cities, you'll see a lot more people range from "but my freedoms" to actively antisocial. Here, I'm using "European" in the "Western European" sense like you presumably are. Eastern Europeans have an anti-Communist bent that resembles rural Americans' behavior.
      - smitty1e 6y ago
        Depends on how you're slicing "interactions", especially considering the internet. Evangelicals are highly into their churches, which tend to fly below the analytic radar. And surprise the "experts" at election time.
- zarkov99 6y ago
  How did you get your impression of what the US is?
  - auggierose 6y ago
    Maybe I got that impression when I was walking from my flat to Pittsburgh university on one of the main roads with plenty of shops left and right, a car stopped and a naked black woman was thrown out of the car and landed 10 meters in front of me on the pavement. Maybe I got that impression when at the same corner my San Francisco dorm flat was, somebody got shot and bled out right there. Maybe I got that impression when I was crossing the street and the driver who was clearly seeing me accelerated and I saved myself by jumping to the side.
- GhostVII 6y ago
  I've lived in several major US cities and have never felt unsafe in any way. Feels pretty similar to Canada, main difference is that the news is more toxic, and the west coast has more visible tents than what I'm used to.
- dang 6y ago
  We've had to warn you before about nationalistic flamebait on HN. Accounts that do that eventually get banned, so please stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - auggierose 6y ago
    That's not flame bait, but (I think it's) true. If you want to ban me, go ahead.
    - auggierose 6y ago
      On some further introspection, this is probably a good moment for a break from HN for me. There is just too much crap out there, and I need to focus all of my time on creating something much better instead of writing HN comments of questionable value.
    - dang 6y ago
      Calling another country crazy, etc., is obviously flamebait in the sense of being a provocation that frequently leads to flamewar. That's independent of whether you think it's true. Nearly all flamebait has the latter property.
DrScump 6y ago
"during the fires, armed vigilantes set up “checkpoints” in small towns" That's quite a claim given that the reference link doesn't even exist.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  It was well reported at the time. https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/14/us/oregon-armed-checkpoints-wildfires-looting-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/14/us/oregon-armed-checkpoints-w... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/15/us/oregon-fires-california.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/15/us/oregon-fires-californi...
- Symbiote 6y ago
  I think the reference link it unintentionally pointing to an internal Guardian system. Someone will probably notice and fix it later.
bawolff 6y ago
Why would anyone move to the usa expecting a liberal paradise? The usa has a lot of things going for it, "liberal paradise" isn't one of them
- corty 6y ago
  Maybe it is just the "movies" perspective, the "wild-west cowboy riding into the sunset" and "hippies relaxing on a california beach with a guitar and some pot" stereotypes are transported frequently. The "white supremacist manning a checkpoint" not so much, or at least only in movies that are meant to be fictional/endtime/faraway. Also, seen from europe, it may be hard to get an accurate picture. The media do not really transport the perspective of the inhabitants accurately. And perception of the media is often skewed towards the more positive end, one tends to ignore negative information that contradicts one's premade impression. Even people you know who tell you about a foreign country will usually gloss over the bad stuff and dwell on the good.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
doe88 6y ago
> Living in Portland was also the first time I felt noticed for being in a mixed-race marriage. Somehow, I can help but invariably notice the lack of mixed-races relationships in US movies et tv series, even to this day where diversity representation (slowly) improves in these mediums.
trekrich 6y ago
an article on the guardian, talking about moving to a democrat city LOL shocking
Proven 6y ago
> We took our seven-year-old to family friendly protests. Maybe those were family-friendly to join (Proud Boys' we're probably too) but they're anti-family and pro-State in effect. The fact that you joined Antifa protests shows you know nothing about true liberalism. Perhaps the time would have been spent better teaching your kid about the U.S. Constitution.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
davidy123 6y ago
Though the article brought out some interesting facts about Portland, I don't know why they didn't consider going 500km north. Sure, it's a little colder, and outside major cities not always well integrated, but it has all the attributes they were looking for, while being a lot less bonkers.
finnthehuman 6y ago
Everything about this article so Portland. Starting with getting duped by the West Coast’s fraudulent “laid back” reputation. Or that they saw some cultural jest and assumed that something as big and complicated a city could be the twee character it’s exaggerated into for effect. Going in not knowing that the local terrain is constantly trying to kill you and wildfires are just one of the many tools it will use. Thinking social unrest should still be kid friendly. The list goes on, all the way to writing a disappointed immigrant exposé in a paper like The Guardian. Classic. And ironically all of this adds up to the fact they’ve assimilated into a typical type of Portland resident.
- switch11 6y ago
  That last line is why I come to Hackers News well put, Sir/Ma'am, well put PURE PERFECTION: And ironically all of this adds up to the fact they’ve assimilated into a typical type of Portland resident.
RickJWagner 6y ago
I don't know where to start. The US has many good things to offer. I think the idea of a liberal utopia doesn't exist. I wish the author would give 'normal' American life a fair chance.
nine_zeros 6y ago
I think anyone considering America should really think about this line: "50% of voting population here voted for Donald Trump". Donald Trump!! The 4 times bankrupt, lying, cheating, tv man was elected as the President. What do you think that says about the population who voted? Seriously, America is no longer a paradise. It's a country full of people blind in their exceptionalism. It's violent. It's ruthless towards its own people to begin with.
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  Your post is totally incoherent, and you see everything backwards. Objective national and foreign commenters consider Trump to be the best US statesman in the 21st century, from his corona travel ban, to understanding the need for a wall, to his handling of the CCP. They credit Trump with understanding and grappling with issues that no other politican is capable of gaining traction with. And the left is burning down US cities, not Republicans or the right. The US is the greatest and most powerful country in history, and for a large country is unique in how little racism there is. But leftists can't admit to reality. I'd like a reason as to why this is flagged. Everything I said is verifiable.
specialist 6y ago
Used to work in Portland. Have opinions. What made Oregon "liberal" is they had to figure stuff out on their own. Typical Pacific Northwest DIY mentality (see Olympia, Bellingham). After the resource extraction industries died, Oregon really struggled to transition to mfg, education, tech. Think Spokane and other inland empire metros. Oregon has the largest hunger problem. Basically a rolling crisis. They've had to take extreme steps to try to mitigate it. Pretty much on their own. So their safety net efforts are driven by necessity. Ditto health insurance. In the 90s and 2000s, Portland city proper tried some proper good governance reforms. Public financing of campaigns. Some kind of runoff voting. Mass public transportation. I was very proud of them and hope they continued. Portland's reputation as "liberal" is what attracts the whackadoodles. Proud Boys and the other hard right lunatics explicitly target Portland. Journalist David Neiwert's has covered these movements since the 90s and some excellent (depressing) books on same. In case anyone's interested. It cracks me up that Seattle and Portland are considered "liberal" by outsiders. The term "Skid Row" comes from Seattle. Think about it. A place to stuff all the undesirables. How could any economies based on resource extraction be "liberal". Fortunes were made the Klondike Gold Rush and other grifts. Those grifters are local saints. People have confused our independent minded conservatives, socially liberal, with left leaning. Nope. Prior to the Bible thumpers, we Nordics mostly merely tolerated other groups. But the core of PNW identity is manifest destiny and capitalism. Think Alaska with less suicide. Business leaders in Seattle and Spokane smashed the labor unions. The trogs jailed the Japanese immigrants and stole their land. While early white settlers had mostly good relations with natives, the trajectory was what you'd expect. The neocons were birthed in the PNW. We're home to the Discovery Institute. The National Prayer Breakfast was birthed in Seattle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Prayer_Breakfast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Prayer_Breakfast "Liberal" Seattle and Portland is only in contrast to other cities. The only truly "liberal" thing Oregon has done, IMHO, was proactively protect their rural, farm, and wild places. HUGE controversy when WA State tried to do the same (Growth Management Act). Driving around Oregon feels qualitatively different. And the mostly protected coast is a gem.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  Also, Oregon was as close to a white ethnostate as has ever existed in America; in 1844 they passed a law that force freed any slaves after 3 years and expelled any free blacks from the state on pain of repeated lashings. The original state constitution forbid slavery, but also had a “whites only” clause. Oregon has been a complicated place for a long time.
playingchanges 6y ago
‘The Dream of the 90's is alive in Portland’ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TZt-pOc3moc https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TZt-pOc3moc
rusty-rust 6y ago
I think this article brings up an important problem wrt how people interpretation what “liberal” means. Liberal != Left > It's confusing because we tend to use them interchangeably in the US. But as far as the true meaning of the terms: Classical Liberalism: the early form of liberalism popularized in the 1700s. strongly rooted in individual liberty in both social and economic matters. Opposes the idea of a strong activist government and believes in the free market economy and and believes strongly in freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc. U.S. Libertarians are often a good example of a "classical liberal". social liberalism: A more modern form of liberalism. They generally believe in many of the same values: (market capitalism, individual liberty) but differ in the fact that they believe the government has more of a role in ensuring the market allocates resources fairly and making market corrections were the free market fails (social welfare, environmental regulation, etc.) they also tend to see more of a role for government in protecting people's liberty (lgbt protections etc.) Many mainstream Democrats are social liberals. Leftist: Generally have adopted the term Progressive in the US. They mainly differ from social liberals in that they believe the free market system is inherently flawed to favor the rich and powerful and believe that the government should either work within the framework of the market system but heavily regulate it and pay for more social services and welfare through higher taxation on the rich and corporations (social democracy) or abandon the free market all together in favor of socialism. There are not really in mainstream figures in the US that are true socialist, but "progressive" figures in the US such as Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders (even though he calls himself a democratic socialist) tend to favor some form of social democracy.[1] [1] Taken from Reddit, but you can confirm it on wiki. https://www.reddit.com/r/Ask_Politics/comments/6xlxpa/comment/dmgyve3?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=comment_expand https://www.reddit.com/r/Ask_Politics/comments/6xlxpa/commen...

35 points by auggierose 6y ago

I think people in Europe underestimate just what a CRAZY place the US is. It's basically a third-world country with a first-world economy. You feel unsafe on the streets, and you have to be alert all the time. A lot of people in the US are just plain nuts, just look at who they voted for. Obviously, its positive sides are also crazy good. Before Trump, they voted for Obama. I guess it is a place for young people and gamblers.

sebmellen 6y ago
Meanwhile in France: https://www.vice.com/en/article/epddna/turkey-france-armenia-grey-wolves-lyon https://www.vice.com/en/article/epddna/turkey-france-armenia....
- auggierose 6y ago
  There is a difference between suffering from terrorist attacks, and letting it change your way of life so that the NSA can snoop on your citizens in an unprecedented way, and you are starting to build a wall somewhere at the Mexican border.
  - jacobwilliamroy 6y ago
    And don't forget we have concentration camps. That's prisons for non-citizens, we also have lots of citizens in prison too. More prisoners per capita than any other country. We are the world's police.
    - 9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
      Well regarding illegal immigration, Europe is straight up fascism. We dump refugees to open prisons on islands. There's not a single country that is so relaxed view on illegal immigration like USA, keeping borders is common sense in the rest of the world, not even a discussion. The immigration crisis was a temporary thing, because there were just too many people coming at once.
      - jacobwilliamroy 6y ago
        Wow. What a shithole. Y'all doing illegal medical procedures on prisoners too? We got illegal medical procedures over here: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/us/ice-hysterectomies-surgeries-georgia.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/us/ice-hysterectomies-sur...
        9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
        I dont know, but the article says the women lived as illegal for two decades - that doesn't even happen here. More often than not our 'ice' does the job and people approve it.
        jacobwilliamroy 6y ago
        Here's a brief reality check: the U.S. and its european allies have been exporting crime and terrorism to southwest asia and northeast africa for almost twenty years now, entirely for the benefit of private corporations. And sure, maybe it's more comfortable to go into denial about what really has been happening over the past two decades, but why settle for comfortable denial when you can embrace the whole truth and feel happy? Feel happy that you're where you are, and they're where they are. We're so lucky to have been randomly born in such good circumstances. Think about it. We might have been randomly born in Yemen, and in that case we would have been thoroughly fucked. Do you feel happy? There are a lot of people suffering right now for our benefit. It would be wasteful to feel anything but joy.
        9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
  - corty 6y ago
    Maybe it is not so much the NSA, but German secret services do pretty much snoop everything they can get their noses into. The only reason that they couldn't collect as much as the NSA was inferior technical capability, not a lack of will or legal options. Everything that happened after Snowden and associated scandals was that the formerly "maybe-legal" status quo was written into law as definitely legal... Europe is currently building walls along the southern (Ceuta, Mellila) and southeastern (Greece-Turkey, Hungary) borders, and relying on the mediterranean to act as such. It may not be a concerted effort, European politics is very much split up over the refugee situation. But even in the most pro-refugee countries, enforcing some boundaries and borders is still accepted by a majority.
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    > terrorist attacks, They're not terrorist attacks, it's civil war.
    - redis_mlc 6y ago
      For people downvoting my parent post, here's something to research. From reading news reports over the past several decades, there's a pattern of civil war when the Muslim population exceeds 5% in a region, since they want their own community. Political Islam is not compatible with any secular system, and adherents are commanded to destroy competing systems and religions. France's Muslim population is approaching 11%. Already French women are harrassed when walking down the street in many areas outside Paris as Muslim men don't want "gender mixing", and there are continual fatal attacks. It's estimated there have been 31,000 attacks world-wide by Muslims since 9/11. It's odd that I haven't heard any from other religions. If you don't understand the above as civil war rather than terrorism, then you need to do your own research to understand the events that are happening around you. I'd like a reason as to why this is flagged. Everything I said is verifiable.
  - lern_too_spel 6y ago
    In the US, that domestic surveillance was shut down and later ruled illegal. In France, it was formally allowed by law. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/06/world/europe/french-legislators-approve-sweeping-intelligence-bill.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/06/world/europe/french-legis... As far as international policy, the French were colonialists in French Indochina, while the US was just red-baited in, so the intentions of the US (though indicative of blundering stupidity) were not as bad.
- raverbashing 6y ago
  This is the paradox of tolerance (which to me should be what Popper is reminded for)
bobobob420 6y ago
Lol. You clearly don’t know anything about Europe or you are a European who uses Google to understand what it means to live in America. People in Europe are AT LEAST as crazy as the “silly Americans” shown on the Telly. I have grown up in America and Europe and there is literally no difference in the people, only how things are shown on tv
- auggierose 6y ago
  Good for you. I've lived in 3 European countries, and I've studied in the US.
  - throw2010310948 6y ago
    I wouldn't bother trying to convince these people. From being on this board, I am starting to feel that the US is incredibly anti-Europe. I mean, the US is the country that single handedly created the refugee crisis in Europe by bombing the s* out of the middle east and Libya in the past 20 years, while not accepting any of the responsibilities. Also, would a supposed ally (the US) really threaten to invade the Netherlands if the ICC decided to investigate US of its wrongdoings?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - nine_zeros 6y ago
      The problem is that Americans cannot see any faults or wrong in their society. It is truly blind faith much like a religion. Astonishing levels of stupidity all over.
      - bobobob420 6y ago
        One of the dumbest statements I have seen on this website. I genuinely do not know how someone can read this comment and hit the reply button. Nice generalities about Americans. Too bad it literally makes no sense lmao. Try looking at the statements you want to make and assess if you are actually saying something with purpose and intent rather than vomitting in the comment section
lie7Izei 6y ago
As an european, I often picture myself US like a mix between european culture and japanese culture. The brand and flavor is european, but everything is pushed to the extreme (from an european point of view) like in Japan.
- auggierose 6y ago
  Maybe they are both extreme, but I believe they are extreme in very different ways.
- smitty1e 6y ago
  U.S. culture, at least its inception, is best viewed through a lens of reacting to European culture. Especially in an intellectually-driven anti-aristocratic way. Not the populist anti-aristocratic way of the French Revolution that followed the American Revolution. That pattern seems to repeat itself as an anti-globalist revolution in the present, and one closer to the French Revolution in some aspects.
  - dropit_sphere 6y ago
    Hmm, I will have to keep this in mind.
  - lern_too_spel 6y ago
    US culture is driven by lack of social interaction. People in rural areas have few interactions with others and don't like rules that limit their own immediate freedoms (to not wear masks, to discriminate, etc.) to keep society safe and in harmony. Due to this effect, older big cities are more "European," newer cities are less "European," and outside of cities, you'll see a lot more people range from "but my freedoms" to actively antisocial. Here, I'm using "European" in the "Western European" sense like you presumably are. Eastern Europeans have an anti-Communist bent that resembles rural Americans' behavior.
    - smitty1e 6y ago
      Depends on how you're slicing "interactions", especially considering the internet. Evangelicals are highly into their churches, which tend to fly below the analytic radar. And surprise the "experts" at election time.
zarkov99 6y ago
How did you get your impression of what the US is?
- auggierose 6y ago
  Maybe I got that impression when I was walking from my flat to Pittsburgh university on one of the main roads with plenty of shops left and right, a car stopped and a naked black woman was thrown out of the car and landed 10 meters in front of me on the pavement. Maybe I got that impression when at the same corner my San Francisco dorm flat was, somebody got shot and bled out right there. Maybe I got that impression when I was crossing the street and the driver who was clearly seeing me accelerated and I saved myself by jumping to the side.
GhostVII 6y ago
I've lived in several major US cities and have never felt unsafe in any way. Feels pretty similar to Canada, main difference is that the news is more toxic, and the west coast has more visible tents than what I'm used to.
dang 6y ago
We've had to warn you before about nationalistic flamebait on HN. Accounts that do that eventually get banned, so please stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- auggierose 6y ago
  That's not flame bait, but (I think it's) true. If you want to ban me, go ahead.
  - auggierose 6y ago
    On some further introspection, this is probably a good moment for a break from HN for me. There is just too much crap out there, and I need to focus all of my time on creating something much better instead of writing HN comments of questionable value.
  - dang 6y ago
    Calling another country crazy, etc., is obviously flamebait in the sense of being a provocation that frequently leads to flamewar. That's independent of whether you think it's true. Nearly all flamebait has the latter property.

DrScump 6y ago

"during the fires, armed vigilantes set up “checkpoints” in small towns" That's quite a claim given that the reference link doesn't even exist.

ashtonkem 6y ago
It was well reported at the time. https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/14/us/oregon-armed-checkpoints-wildfires-looting-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/14/us/oregon-armed-checkpoints-w... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/15/us/oregon-fires-california.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/15/us/oregon-fires-californi...
Symbiote 6y ago
I think the reference link it unintentionally pointing to an internal Guardian system. Someone will probably notice and fix it later.

bawolff 6y ago

Why would anyone move to the usa expecting a liberal paradise? The usa has a lot of things going for it, "liberal paradise" isn't one of them

corty 6y ago
Maybe it is just the "movies" perspective, the "wild-west cowboy riding into the sunset" and "hippies relaxing on a california beach with a guitar and some pot" stereotypes are transported frequently. The "white supremacist manning a checkpoint" not so much, or at least only in movies that are meant to be fictional/endtime/faraway. Also, seen from europe, it may be hard to get an accurate picture. The media do not really transport the perspective of the inhabitants accurately. And perception of the media is often skewed towards the more positive end, one tends to ignore negative information that contradicts one's premade impression. Even people you know who tell you about a foreign country will usually gloss over the bad stuff and dwell on the good.
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doe88 6y ago

> Living in Portland was also the first time I felt noticed for being in a mixed-race marriage. Somehow, I can help but invariably notice the lack of mixed-races relationships in US movies et tv series, even to this day where diversity representation (slowly) improves in these mediums.

trekrich 6y ago

an article on the guardian, talking about moving to a democrat city LOL shocking

Proven 6y ago

> We took our seven-year-old to family friendly protests. Maybe those were family-friendly to join (Proud Boys' we're probably too) but they're anti-family and pro-State in effect. The fact that you joined Antifa protests shows you know nothing about true liberalism. Perhaps the time would have been spent better teaching your kid about the U.S. Constitution.

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davidy123 6y ago

Though the article brought out some interesting facts about Portland, I don't know why they didn't consider going 500km north. Sure, it's a little colder, and outside major cities not always well integrated, but it has all the attributes they were looking for, while being a lot less bonkers.

finnthehuman 6y ago

Everything about this article so Portland. Starting with getting duped by the West Coast’s fraudulent “laid back” reputation. Or that they saw some cultural jest and assumed that something as big and complicated a city could be the twee character it’s exaggerated into for effect. Going in not knowing that the local terrain is constantly trying to kill you and wildfires are just one of the many tools it will use. Thinking social unrest should still be kid friendly. The list goes on, all the way to writing a disappointed immigrant exposé in a paper like The Guardian. Classic. And ironically all of this adds up to the fact they’ve assimilated into a typical type of Portland resident.

switch11 6y ago
That last line is why I come to Hackers News well put, Sir/Ma'am, well put PURE PERFECTION: And ironically all of this adds up to the fact they’ve assimilated into a typical type of Portland resident.

RickJWagner 6y ago

I don't know where to start. The US has many good things to offer. I think the idea of a liberal utopia doesn't exist. I wish the author would give 'normal' American life a fair chance.

nine_zeros 6y ago

I think anyone considering America should really think about this line: "50% of voting population here voted for Donald Trump". Donald Trump!! The 4 times bankrupt, lying, cheating, tv man was elected as the President. What do you think that says about the population who voted? Seriously, America is no longer a paradise. It's a country full of people blind in their exceptionalism. It's violent. It's ruthless towards its own people to begin with.

redis_mlc 6y ago
Your post is totally incoherent, and you see everything backwards. Objective national and foreign commenters consider Trump to be the best US statesman in the 21st century, from his corona travel ban, to understanding the need for a wall, to his handling of the CCP. They credit Trump with understanding and grappling with issues that no other politican is capable of gaining traction with. And the left is burning down US cities, not Republicans or the right. The US is the greatest and most powerful country in history, and for a large country is unique in how little racism there is. But leftists can't admit to reality. I'd like a reason as to why this is flagged. Everything I said is verifiable.

specialist 6y ago

Used to work in Portland. Have opinions. What made Oregon "liberal" is they had to figure stuff out on their own. Typical Pacific Northwest DIY mentality (see Olympia, Bellingham). After the resource extraction industries died, Oregon really struggled to transition to mfg, education, tech. Think Spokane and other inland empire metros. Oregon has the largest hunger problem. Basically a rolling crisis. They've had to take extreme steps to try to mitigate it. Pretty much on their own. So their safety net efforts are driven by necessity. Ditto health insurance. In the 90s and 2000s, Portland city proper tried some proper good governance reforms. Public financing of campaigns. Some kind of runoff voting. Mass public transportation. I was very proud of them and hope they continued. Portland's reputation as "liberal" is what attracts the whackadoodles. Proud Boys and the other hard right lunatics explicitly target Portland. Journalist David Neiwert's has covered these movements since the 90s and some excellent (depressing) books on same. In case anyone's interested. It cracks me up that Seattle and Portland are considered "liberal" by outsiders. The term "Skid Row" comes from Seattle. Think about it. A place to stuff all the undesirables. How could any economies based on resource extraction be "liberal". Fortunes were made the Klondike Gold Rush and other grifts. Those grifters are local saints. People have confused our independent minded conservatives, socially liberal, with left leaning. Nope. Prior to the Bible thumpers, we Nordics mostly merely tolerated other groups. But the core of PNW identity is manifest destiny and capitalism. Think Alaska with less suicide. Business leaders in Seattle and Spokane smashed the labor unions. The trogs jailed the Japanese immigrants and stole their land. While early white settlers had mostly good relations with natives, the trajectory was what you'd expect. The neocons were birthed in the PNW. We're home to the Discovery Institute. The National Prayer Breakfast was birthed in Seattle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Prayer_Breakfast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Prayer_Breakfast "Liberal" Seattle and Portland is only in contrast to other cities. The only truly "liberal" thing Oregon has done, IMHO, was proactively protect their rural, farm, and wild places. HUGE controversy when WA State tried to do the same (Growth Management Act). Driving around Oregon feels qualitatively different. And the mostly protected coast is a gem.

ashtonkem 6y ago
Also, Oregon was as close to a white ethnostate as has ever existed in America; in 1844 they passed a law that force freed any slaves after 3 years and expelled any free blacks from the state on pain of repeated lashings. The original state constitution forbid slavery, but also had a “whites only” clause. Oregon has been a complicated place for a long time.

playingchanges 6y ago

‘The Dream of the 90's is alive in Portland’ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TZt-pOc3moc https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TZt-pOc3moc

rusty-rust 6y ago

I think this article brings up an important problem wrt how people interpretation what “liberal” means. Liberal != Left > It's confusing because we tend to use them interchangeably in the US. But as far as the true meaning of the terms: Classical Liberalism: the early form of liberalism popularized in the 1700s. strongly rooted in individual liberty in both social and economic matters. Opposes the idea of a strong activist government and believes in the free market economy and and believes strongly in freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc. U.S. Libertarians are often a good example of a "classical liberal". social liberalism: A more modern form of liberalism. They generally believe in many of the same values: (market capitalism, individual liberty) but differ in the fact that they believe the government has more of a role in ensuring the market allocates resources fairly and making market corrections were the free market fails (social welfare, environmental regulation, etc.) they also tend to see more of a role for government in protecting people's liberty (lgbt protections etc.) Many mainstream Democrats are social liberals. Leftist: Generally have adopted the term Progressive in the US. They mainly differ from social liberals in that they believe the free market system is inherently flawed to favor the rich and powerful and believe that the government should either work within the framework of the market system but heavily regulate it and pay for more social services and welfare through higher taxation on the rich and corporations (social democracy) or abandon the free market all together in favor of socialism. There are not really in mainstream figures in the US that are true socialist, but "progressive" figures in the US such as Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders (even though he calls himself a democratic socialist) tend to favor some form of social democracy.[1] [1] Taken from Reddit, but you can confirm it on wiki. https://www.reddit.com/r/Ask_Politics/comments/6xlxpa/comment/dmgyve3?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=comment_expand https://www.reddit.com/r/Ask_Politics/comments/6xlxpa/commen...