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Telling someone they don’t need health insurance is irresponsible, there’s plenty of things that can go wrong in your 20s, like a car accident. If they decided

Telling someone they don’t need health insurance is irresponsible, there’s plenty of things that can go wrong in your 20s, like a car accident. If they decided not to have that while running a startup not only would they potentially lose their first mover advantage, they’d be saddled in crippling medical debt. One’s health should always come first, you don’t appreciate it until you don’t have it.

tonyedgecombe 6y ago
I'm surprised private healthcare isn't more of a drain on the American economy. I often wonder how many businesses aren't started because of that cost.
- jasonv 6y ago
  It’s not a requirement to offer health insurance in the US. If you make someone an offer and it doesn’t Include health insurance, and they accept, and the individual mandate isn’t enforced anymore, then theres no additional burden on the company. I’ve been offered jobs without health insurance and didn’t accept them. I’ve contracted for those companies as I’m my own company and have had a group health plan for myself and others/partners. Figure the premium can be $1000-1200/per. Getting it is easy. You call a broker (usually for group plans you need to go through a broker), fill out a couple of forms, produce a few paystubs, apply, and enroll.
  - randmeerkat 6y ago
    $1000 - $1200 per person per month? I know some consultants who can’t find health insurance that cheap. Are those high deductible plans?
    - jasonv 6y ago
      PPO with moderate deductibles. Are they doing individual or group plans? And sorry, this wasn’t SF proper, though when I managed a plan for 30+ employees in SF it was about $1500/per. That was high deductible with a roll-over HSA match. The broker was helpful in giving us a decent menu to choose from.
      - randmeerkat 6y ago
        Thanks for the clarification, they’re on individual plans outside of CA, so probably not an apples to apples comparison.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        $1,500 for an individual HDHP is way on the high end, even for SF. Was the group full of 60 year olds? If it’s young people, it should be in the $500 range at most. This was the quickest data I could find: https://www.valuepenguin.com/best-cheap-health-insurance-california https://www.valuepenguin.com/best-cheap-health-insurance-cal... Also, what is a rollover HSA match? Any HSA contributions don’t come from the insurance company so I don’t see why that would affect the premium.
    - redis_mlc 6y ago
      The pre-ACA rate was $250/month for one working person. ACA plus inflation doubled that to $500/month, which is out of the reach of flyover country blue-collar wages. For planning purposes, use $500-$1,200/month for a young single person now. Historically it goes up around 20% per year, so I'm sure HN readers can do the Rule of 72 in their heads and realize where this is going.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        This is false. Health insurance premiums for HDHP should be around $500 at most for a young person in the highest cost of living areas of the US. As a reference, these are the monthly premiums in NJ: https://www.state.nj.us/dobi/division_insurance/ihcseh/ihcrates_2020.pdf https://www.state.nj.us/dobi/division_insurance/ihcseh/ihcra...
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      $1k is way too high for an insurance premium for a young individual, even in SF. Here’s a list of NJ insurance premiums available at healthcare.gov, and you can multiply by the age factor shown at the bottom: https://www.state.nj.us/dobi/division_insurance/ihcseh/ihcrates_2020.pdf https://www.state.nj.us/dobi/division_insurance/ihcseh/ihcra... SF is more expensive than NJ, but not 2x to 3x more expensive for healthcare.
- randmeerkat 6y ago
  I often wonder about the impact of a private healthcare system on economic activity too. The truth is, we’ll never really know until there’s some sort of public option.
  - jokethrowaway 6y ago
    You can look at Europe for example Personally I didn't start a company in one country (but moved to another) just because of the high bureaucracy cost and high taxes.
    - randmeerkat 6y ago
      I know plenty of Europeans that are entrepreneurs who do well for themselves. The American attitude of the European system being incapable of producing anything meaningful because it doesn’t capitulate completely to corporate interests is overplayed. Just look at Arm and the U.K. for example.
      - redis_mlc 6y ago
        > Just look at Arm and the U.K. for example. Wow, one whole example. And it's owned by the US now. Most UK "technology companies" are box-shifters retailing American products. Pathetic.
redis_mlc 6y ago
> Telling someone they don’t need health insurance is irresponsible Unless you're offering to pay it, I don't see how your opinion can be taken seriously. Most startups take about 7 years of runway, and at $500-$1,200/month for a single person, those startups won't happen.

tonyedgecombe 6y ago

I'm surprised private healthcare isn't more of a drain on the American economy. I often wonder how many businesses aren't started because of that cost.

jasonv 6y ago
It’s not a requirement to offer health insurance in the US. If you make someone an offer and it doesn’t Include health insurance, and they accept, and the individual mandate isn’t enforced anymore, then theres no additional burden on the company. I’ve been offered jobs without health insurance and didn’t accept them. I’ve contracted for those companies as I’m my own company and have had a group health plan for myself and others/partners. Figure the premium can be $1000-1200/per. Getting it is easy. You call a broker (usually for group plans you need to go through a broker), fill out a couple of forms, produce a few paystubs, apply, and enroll.
- randmeerkat 6y ago
  $1000 - $1200 per person per month? I know some consultants who can’t find health insurance that cheap. Are those high deductible plans?
  - jasonv 6y ago
    PPO with moderate deductibles. Are they doing individual or group plans? And sorry, this wasn’t SF proper, though when I managed a plan for 30+ employees in SF it was about $1500/per. That was high deductible with a roll-over HSA match. The broker was helpful in giving us a decent menu to choose from.
    - randmeerkat 6y ago
      Thanks for the clarification, they’re on individual plans outside of CA, so probably not an apples to apples comparison.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      $1,500 for an individual HDHP is way on the high end, even for SF. Was the group full of 60 year olds? If it’s young people, it should be in the $500 range at most. This was the quickest data I could find: https://www.valuepenguin.com/best-cheap-health-insurance-california https://www.valuepenguin.com/best-cheap-health-insurance-cal... Also, what is a rollover HSA match? Any HSA contributions don’t come from the insurance company so I don’t see why that would affect the premium.
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    The pre-ACA rate was $250/month for one working person. ACA plus inflation doubled that to $500/month, which is out of the reach of flyover country blue-collar wages. For planning purposes, use $500-$1,200/month for a young single person now. Historically it goes up around 20% per year, so I'm sure HN readers can do the Rule of 72 in their heads and realize where this is going.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      This is false. Health insurance premiums for HDHP should be around $500 at most for a young person in the highest cost of living areas of the US. As a reference, these are the monthly premiums in NJ: https://www.state.nj.us/dobi/division_insurance/ihcseh/ihcrates_2020.pdf https://www.state.nj.us/dobi/division_insurance/ihcseh/ihcra...
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    $1k is way too high for an insurance premium for a young individual, even in SF. Here’s a list of NJ insurance premiums available at healthcare.gov, and you can multiply by the age factor shown at the bottom: https://www.state.nj.us/dobi/division_insurance/ihcseh/ihcrates_2020.pdf https://www.state.nj.us/dobi/division_insurance/ihcseh/ihcra... SF is more expensive than NJ, but not 2x to 3x more expensive for healthcare.
randmeerkat 6y ago
I often wonder about the impact of a private healthcare system on economic activity too. The truth is, we’ll never really know until there’s some sort of public option.
- jokethrowaway 6y ago
  You can look at Europe for example Personally I didn't start a company in one country (but moved to another) just because of the high bureaucracy cost and high taxes.
  - randmeerkat 6y ago
    I know plenty of Europeans that are entrepreneurs who do well for themselves. The American attitude of the European system being incapable of producing anything meaningful because it doesn’t capitulate completely to corporate interests is overplayed. Just look at Arm and the U.K. for example.
    - redis_mlc 6y ago
      > Just look at Arm and the U.K. for example. Wow, one whole example. And it's owned by the US now. Most UK "technology companies" are box-shifters retailing American products. Pathetic.

redis_mlc 6y ago

> Telling someone they don’t need health insurance is irresponsible Unless you're offering to pay it, I don't see how your opinion can be taken seriously. Most startups take about 7 years of runway, and at $500-$1,200/month for a single person, those startups won't happen.