4 ms·

This is exactly what I'm talking about. One beer every 3 months is proof my diet is a problem? For a condition you know nothing about? Really. Fine, then it

This is exactly what I'm talking about. One beer every 3 months is proof my diet is a problem? For a condition you know nothing about? Really. Fine, then it's useless, and I've surrounded myself with idiots, all of my careful testing and attempts to understand my condition have failed. This kinda of nonsense, where I debate the very meaning of "me" to some extent is tiring. Even if I'm wrong in all of this, I'm not harming you, you're someone online, but I try really hard to not be a burden on anyone I come in contact with. I actually try to be a net positive to the world, in my small way. It's already hard enough for me to wake up every day and face the world without just ending my pain. Don't make me debate my sanity while I'm at it.

kshacker 6y ago
I think you need to cool down. We live in a complex world. Some of us know the health side well a lot of us don't. Then we get an issue, like I had a heart attack and stents, and besides what the doctors and the family say, we read and read and read. And then when we see all the healthcare industry is trying to do is to make money from our sickness, when we see a friend in similar or really tangential pain, we try to help based on our experiences. That is life. I have offered my (unsolicited) help and knowing my condition some people have also seemed my help. That is again life. What you and I need are skills to move on if not interested, but blaming people for trying to help in a social setting is probably not the right way to look at it. Apologies for being blunt.
- wpietri 6y ago
  Nope. He does not need to cool down. He needs people to realize when "trying to help" is not helping. When it's actually about appearing smart or appeasing one's anxieties or showboating or controlling or getting nice points. If you think somebody might benefit from your advice, you could ask. "Hey, I have been through X, would my opinion be useful?" But before you do that, maybe think about the vast number of people who have already jumped in to offer unsolicited, unhelpful, and unwanted advice. And maybe just trust that if a person needs your advice, they'll ask you for it.
- boneitis 6y ago
  > I think you need to cool down. I think this is unfair. The response is probably calmer than what I would have passed back in my best effort, had I been the one engaged. > move on if not interested, but blaming people for trying to help in a social setting On HN (and with a higher bar), I would be blaming people for talking past me in seemingly bad faith.
- athriren 6y ago
  No, the actual issue here is that people don’t understand that they need to have enough empathy to be able to follow a logical sequence of steps before speaking: First, realize that the person with the chronic health issue has probably put a lot more time and effort into addressing the complexity of their experience. Second, realize it is in fact exhausting to constantly get unsolicited advice. Third, realize you presumably are not the only person this person with a chronic health issue interacts with and that most people do not take special care to avoid giving unsolicited advice. Fourth, realize this means you should assume that this person is getting a lot of unsolicited advice. Stop for a moment before speaking at this point. Ask yourself, is your additional one iota of advice is highly likely to be both completely novel to this person and efficacious for their issue? Your advice is unlikely to be both those things simultaneously but instead forces this person’s focus back on an issue they are likely trying to avoid thinking about. Okay, given all that, I am not saying “don’t ever give advice”. All I would request of people is that most of the time, ask first. If your advice is critical, novel, and highly likely to succeed, perhaps intervene immediately. But otherwise, the person will appreciate this opportunity to decide whether or not to interact with input regarding their chronic issue, it’s very unusual that anyone takes care to consider how it feels emotionally to be constantly the person who needs to be told how to live. Imagine you were telling someone what you had for lunch. You had a sandwich. They ask what toppings you had. You say you had these particular toppings. The person then says “you should try next time adding this other topping, that would have made your sandwich better and in fact would greatly improve the quality of your life”. Unfortunately, you’re allergic to this additional topping, which you dutifully inform the other participant in the conversation. Okay, that’s fine. Maybe it would have made the sandwich better in their opinion, and sometimes that kind of stuff is okay to let go. But now imagine this conversation happening with multiple people every lunch every day for the rest of your life. Pretty soon you’d start wondering why the fuck all these people have such strong opinions about your lunch. You would also notice that none of these people ate any sandwiches with the topping they insisted would improve your life so much. I have a chronic health condition that is better managed now, but at one point caused debilitating pain. I stopped talking about it and tried to avoid giving any indication I was unwell at all outside of intimate social settings, because the sheer volume of unsolicited input I got about how the right way to deal with the fact that a surgeon shredded the nerves in my abdomen was to take ginger and rub lavender essential oils on it, or just use CBD, or have you tried hopping up and down on your left foot on a Tuesday immediately following the vernal equinox...
- BeetleB 6y ago
  > but blaming people for trying to help in a social setting is probably not the right way to look at it And yet, the path to Hell is paved with ...
centimeter 6y ago
I’m not responding to you because I think you’re harming me; I’m responding to you because I have been in a similar position to you and I feel empathetic towards you. My advice, from that standpoint, is that any diet that allows beer is probably way too lenient to do anything useful. I can make this judgement with high confidence without knowing the specifics of your condition. If you’re of European descent, I would concretely advise you to try eating only ruminant meat and water for 4 weeks. This is an extremely high power to weight diagnostic strategy.
- mrmonkeyman 6y ago
  Also, boil the liver of a 6 day old sparrow in pig fat. Extremely effective and very, very high power to weight ratio.
treeman79 6y ago
Ah planning the treats. I’ll have a chocolate donut about once a month. I have to perfect in my diet for days in order to enjoy it no penalty. A second one is not an option.

kshacker 6y ago

I think you need to cool down. We live in a complex world. Some of us know the health side well a lot of us don't. Then we get an issue, like I had a heart attack and stents, and besides what the doctors and the family say, we read and read and read. And then when we see all the healthcare industry is trying to do is to make money from our sickness, when we see a friend in similar or really tangential pain, we try to help based on our experiences. That is life. I have offered my (unsolicited) help and knowing my condition some people have also seemed my help. That is again life. What you and I need are skills to move on if not interested, but blaming people for trying to help in a social setting is probably not the right way to look at it. Apologies for being blunt.

wpietri 6y ago
Nope. He does not need to cool down. He needs people to realize when "trying to help" is not helping. When it's actually about appearing smart or appeasing one's anxieties or showboating or controlling or getting nice points. If you think somebody might benefit from your advice, you could ask. "Hey, I have been through X, would my opinion be useful?" But before you do that, maybe think about the vast number of people who have already jumped in to offer unsolicited, unhelpful, and unwanted advice. And maybe just trust that if a person needs your advice, they'll ask you for it.
boneitis 6y ago
> I think you need to cool down. I think this is unfair. The response is probably calmer than what I would have passed back in my best effort, had I been the one engaged. > move on if not interested, but blaming people for trying to help in a social setting On HN (and with a higher bar), I would be blaming people for talking past me in seemingly bad faith.
athriren 6y ago
No, the actual issue here is that people don’t understand that they need to have enough empathy to be able to follow a logical sequence of steps before speaking: First, realize that the person with the chronic health issue has probably put a lot more time and effort into addressing the complexity of their experience. Second, realize it is in fact exhausting to constantly get unsolicited advice. Third, realize you presumably are not the only person this person with a chronic health issue interacts with and that most people do not take special care to avoid giving unsolicited advice. Fourth, realize this means you should assume that this person is getting a lot of unsolicited advice. Stop for a moment before speaking at this point. Ask yourself, is your additional one iota of advice is highly likely to be both completely novel to this person and efficacious for their issue? Your advice is unlikely to be both those things simultaneously but instead forces this person’s focus back on an issue they are likely trying to avoid thinking about. Okay, given all that, I am not saying “don’t ever give advice”. All I would request of people is that most of the time, ask first. If your advice is critical, novel, and highly likely to succeed, perhaps intervene immediately. But otherwise, the person will appreciate this opportunity to decide whether or not to interact with input regarding their chronic issue, it’s very unusual that anyone takes care to consider how it feels emotionally to be constantly the person who needs to be told how to live. Imagine you were telling someone what you had for lunch. You had a sandwich. They ask what toppings you had. You say you had these particular toppings. The person then says “you should try next time adding this other topping, that would have made your sandwich better and in fact would greatly improve the quality of your life”. Unfortunately, you’re allergic to this additional topping, which you dutifully inform the other participant in the conversation. Okay, that’s fine. Maybe it would have made the sandwich better in their opinion, and sometimes that kind of stuff is okay to let go. But now imagine this conversation happening with multiple people every lunch every day for the rest of your life. Pretty soon you’d start wondering why the fuck all these people have such strong opinions about your lunch. You would also notice that none of these people ate any sandwiches with the topping they insisted would improve your life so much. I have a chronic health condition that is better managed now, but at one point caused debilitating pain. I stopped talking about it and tried to avoid giving any indication I was unwell at all outside of intimate social settings, because the sheer volume of unsolicited input I got about how the right way to deal with the fact that a surgeon shredded the nerves in my abdomen was to take ginger and rub lavender essential oils on it, or just use CBD, or have you tried hopping up and down on your left foot on a Tuesday immediately following the vernal equinox...
BeetleB 6y ago
> but blaming people for trying to help in a social setting is probably not the right way to look at it And yet, the path to Hell is paved with ...

centimeter 6y ago

I’m not responding to you because I think you’re harming me; I’m responding to you because I have been in a similar position to you and I feel empathetic towards you. My advice, from that standpoint, is that any diet that allows beer is probably way too lenient to do anything useful. I can make this judgement with high confidence without knowing the specifics of your condition. If you’re of European descent, I would concretely advise you to try eating only ruminant meat and water for 4 weeks. This is an extremely high power to weight diagnostic strategy.

mrmonkeyman 6y ago
Also, boil the liver of a 6 day old sparrow in pig fat. Extremely effective and very, very high power to weight ratio.

treeman79 6y ago

Ah planning the treats. I’ll have a chocolate donut about once a month. I have to perfect in my diet for days in order to enjoy it no penalty. A second one is not an option.