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It's a stereotype, and like a lot of stereotypes, it has a little bit of statistical truth, but I don't think it does justice for the excellent front-end engine

by dkarl 6y ago

It's a stereotype, and like a lot of stereotypes, it has a little bit of statistical truth, but I don't think it does justice for the excellent front-end engineers that do exist and whom I've worked with personally. That said, there is some truth in it. The thing about the back end is that there's no satisfaction in it other than the satisfaction of doing it well and earning the esteem of peers, so most back end developers are paying attention to the quality of the code they write. The front end has other attractions as well, and many front-end developers start out focused on those attractions, and learn by experience (if they learn at all) that writing high quality code is related to the cool stuff that got them into programming in the first place.

jbverschoor 6y ago
Sorry, but I can’t agree. Yes, they are capable of making great software, but it’s exactly what gp said... they don’t think. I’ve seen so much code which looks nice from the outside, abd is all structured. But if you start reading, I’m riddled wtfs and questions about why things weren’t done in a more simple concise and stable way.
- watermelon59 6y ago
  That's my experience too. Recently had to deal with some Slack bot written in js at work, and my coworkers had to deal with me ranting about that crap for a whole afternoon. The way I put it was, this code was written in the most complicated way possible, for no apparent reason.
systemvoltage 6y ago
I didn't mean us to be divisive. Backend engineers need good front-end partners to be successful. Front-end engineers depend on the backend folk to not fuck shit up, which happens time and again. I meant that the developer community, the folks that are at the helm of developing Javascript frameworks (gahhhh!) and other shenanigans, the entire browser based ecosystem just reeks of incompetence, lack of discipline and rigor. Frontend and Backend engineers should get together and build a better system that serves both well. That's what I meant by asking Postgres core devs to build front-end tools, something like Gemini [1]. [1] https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ https://gemini.circumlunar.space/

by dkarl 6y ago

jbverschoor 6y ago

Sorry, but I can’t agree. Yes, they are capable of making great software, but it’s exactly what gp said... they don’t think. I’ve seen so much code which looks nice from the outside, abd is all structured. But if you start reading, I’m riddled wtfs and questions about why things weren’t done in a more simple concise and stable way.

watermelon59 6y ago
That's my experience too. Recently had to deal with some Slack bot written in js at work, and my coworkers had to deal with me ranting about that crap for a whole afternoon. The way I put it was, this code was written in the most complicated way possible, for no apparent reason.

systemvoltage 6y ago

I didn't mean us to be divisive. Backend engineers need good front-end partners to be successful. Front-end engineers depend on the backend folk to not fuck shit up, which happens time and again. I meant that the developer community, the folks that are at the helm of developing Javascript frameworks (gahhhh!) and other shenanigans, the entire browser based ecosystem just reeks of incompetence, lack of discipline and rigor. Frontend and Backend engineers should get together and build a better system that serves both well. That's what I meant by asking Postgres core devs to build front-end tools, something like Gemini [1]. [1] https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ https://gemini.circumlunar.space/