5 ms·

IMO, there needs to be a bootstrapping track. Perhaps the bootstrapping track should even be the primary one. Of course YC won't do this, but IMHO, bootstrappin

by cglee 6y ago

IMO, there needs to be a bootstrapping track. Perhaps the bootstrapping track should even be the primary one. Of course YC won't do this, but IMHO, bootstrapping leads to the best chance for young people to quickly become millionaires.

kcorbitt 6y ago
We've talked about this, and may build a track that officially targets this in the future. That said, with the exception of two pieces of content that talk about applying to YC, one piece about understanding SAFE financing, and perhaps part of our video about pitching your startup, really everything else we talk about is the right advice whether you're planning on bootstrapping or raising VC. Learning to build something people want, which is the core of the Startup School curriculum, really doesn't depend on where your funding comes from!
- mdorazio 6y ago
  Definitely finding the right thing to make and then finding product-market fit are the same, but bootstrapping necessarily limits your choices to products/services that are profitable early on rather than after burning millions to capture market share. Bootstrapping also, in my opinion and experience, requires a lot more appreciation of accounting and finance on the part of founders, and a lot more questioning ("do I really need to hire another person for this or can I find a way to keep costs down?"). I can definitely see a different curriculum and skillset building that is separate from the VC track.
  - ampdepolymerase 6y ago
    The problem is that YC-type opportunities are limited to those living in maybe 3 cities. Most places in the world do not have the funding opportunities. Shaping the narrative such that YC-style incubation is the "default" only benefits YC so they will have an increasingly large pool of applicants where they can pick the cream of the crop. This does not serve founders well as they would be wasting their time networking to nowhere when instead they should be building and selling.
    - TameAntelope 6y ago
      I think this isn't as true as it used to be. Sure, SF and whatever the two others you were thinking of are massive, but there are smaller scenes in other places that also have funds available for incubation-type environments. At the very least, understanding what the process is supposed to look like will help folks in those nascent scenes identify when something is amiss.
      - ampdepolymerase 6y ago
        Half the value is in funding, the other half the network. You have an exponential decrease in opportunities elsewhere versus San Fran (and Seattle and NYC). Forcing, or at least strongly encouraging founders to seek out incubators as the One True Way will restrict, not increase opportunities for founders. What YC is doing is dressing up VC ideology as something that is universally founder-friendly. What's good for the capital owner isn't good for the founder when the founders do not have many options to choose from in the first place. In those situations it is better for the founder to keep more of their pie to themselves versus selling out to the only player in their very local, very small pond.
- AlchemistCamp 6y ago
  So if we're bootstrapping side projects instead of looking for angel funding, should we sign up for this future founder track or the original one?
cvhashim 6y ago
- Indie Hackers - Rob Walling podcast/blogs - MicroConf Are some useful resources to start with
- cglee 6y ago
  Long-time MicroConf attendee (and one time sponsor). Still, YC has an outsized influence on young people and I'd like to see the bootstrap model expressed as a more obtainable path to one's first million.
- will_pseudonym 6y ago
  - patio11 aka Patrick McKenzie (https://twitter.com/patio11 https://twitter.com/patio11, https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=patio11 https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=patio11, and https://www.kalzumeus.com https://www.kalzumeus.com)
burlesona 6y ago
I did startup school's first cohort, and I would say it's equally useful for bootstrappers and VC-minded founders. What it is NOT useful for is side projects. I think nurturing a side project into a full-time business is a whole different skill that's actually quite difficult and requires even more luck than bootstrapping or VC-startuping.
- will_pseudonym 6y ago
  What makes you say that they're different skills? Or, why do you view them differently? I'd love to read more about this distinction.
  - ngokevin 6y ago
    I feel side projects is something you do for fun or on a whim. You just start building immediately on your off-time with not much expectations. Maybe to try out a new technology. It's more of a solo engineering activity. You build it first, and maybe down the line, something comes of it and you do a Show HN in six months. A business is more broad and deliberate. From the get-go, you need to constantly be talking to many people, have a process for validating the problem, track metrics, plan your time, think about opportunity costs of pursuing different paths, have sales funnels, marketing, scope things out, etc.
  - burlesona 6y ago
    A side hustle is just fundamentally different than a full-time job. On the one hand, something else is paying the bills, so you can be patient. But on the other hand, you can't take meetings 9-5, or push nearly as hard on the work as you could if it was full time, so you have to be patient. It's quite difficult to work on something enough on the side to build momentum and get it rolling, and it's extra hard to maintain that momentum for long enough for it to reach "escape velocity," that is, to become profitable to where you can quit your day job. So the challenge of managing the two jobs, and specifically transitioning from day job + hobby (at the beginning), to two jobs but one doesn't really pay well, to finally quitting the first job so you can focus on the bootstrapped project... That's just a whole different beast from somebody who quits their job and starts a business (with or without raising money).
ngokevin 6y ago
I'm currently bootstrapping as a YC alumni, and I'm going through YC Startup School. The curriculum is just as valuable for bootstrappers! It's all about validating a problem, getting users, planning your time, etc. The core curriculum doesn't have anything about trying to get investors. There's one video about what YC looks for in a startup application, but even that's still useful for a bootstrapper (clarity of thought).

by cglee 6y ago

kcorbitt 6y ago

We've talked about this, and may build a track that officially targets this in the future. That said, with the exception of two pieces of content that talk about applying to YC, one piece about understanding SAFE financing, and perhaps part of our video about pitching your startup, really everything else we talk about is the right advice whether you're planning on bootstrapping or raising VC. Learning to build something people want, which is the core of the Startup School curriculum, really doesn't depend on where your funding comes from!

mdorazio 6y ago
Definitely finding the right thing to make and then finding product-market fit are the same, but bootstrapping necessarily limits your choices to products/services that are profitable early on rather than after burning millions to capture market share. Bootstrapping also, in my opinion and experience, requires a lot more appreciation of accounting and finance on the part of founders, and a lot more questioning ("do I really need to hire another person for this or can I find a way to keep costs down?"). I can definitely see a different curriculum and skillset building that is separate from the VC track.
- ampdepolymerase 6y ago
  The problem is that YC-type opportunities are limited to those living in maybe 3 cities. Most places in the world do not have the funding opportunities. Shaping the narrative such that YC-style incubation is the "default" only benefits YC so they will have an increasingly large pool of applicants where they can pick the cream of the crop. This does not serve founders well as they would be wasting their time networking to nowhere when instead they should be building and selling.
  - TameAntelope 6y ago
    I think this isn't as true as it used to be. Sure, SF and whatever the two others you were thinking of are massive, but there are smaller scenes in other places that also have funds available for incubation-type environments. At the very least, understanding what the process is supposed to look like will help folks in those nascent scenes identify when something is amiss.
    - ampdepolymerase 6y ago
      Half the value is in funding, the other half the network. You have an exponential decrease in opportunities elsewhere versus San Fran (and Seattle and NYC). Forcing, or at least strongly encouraging founders to seek out incubators as the One True Way will restrict, not increase opportunities for founders. What YC is doing is dressing up VC ideology as something that is universally founder-friendly. What's good for the capital owner isn't good for the founder when the founders do not have many options to choose from in the first place. In those situations it is better for the founder to keep more of their pie to themselves versus selling out to the only player in their very local, very small pond.
AlchemistCamp 6y ago
So if we're bootstrapping side projects instead of looking for angel funding, should we sign up for this future founder track or the original one?

cvhashim 6y ago

- Indie Hackers - Rob Walling podcast/blogs - MicroConf Are some useful resources to start with

cglee 6y ago
Long-time MicroConf attendee (and one time sponsor). Still, YC has an outsized influence on young people and I'd like to see the bootstrap model expressed as a more obtainable path to one's first million.
will_pseudonym 6y ago
- patio11 aka Patrick McKenzie (https://twitter.com/patio11 https://twitter.com/patio11, https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=patio11 https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=patio11, and https://www.kalzumeus.com https://www.kalzumeus.com)

burlesona 6y ago

I did startup school's first cohort, and I would say it's equally useful for bootstrappers and VC-minded founders. What it is NOT useful for is side projects. I think nurturing a side project into a full-time business is a whole different skill that's actually quite difficult and requires even more luck than bootstrapping or VC-startuping.

will_pseudonym 6y ago
What makes you say that they're different skills? Or, why do you view them differently? I'd love to read more about this distinction.
- ngokevin 6y ago
  I feel side projects is something you do for fun or on a whim. You just start building immediately on your off-time with not much expectations. Maybe to try out a new technology. It's more of a solo engineering activity. You build it first, and maybe down the line, something comes of it and you do a Show HN in six months. A business is more broad and deliberate. From the get-go, you need to constantly be talking to many people, have a process for validating the problem, track metrics, plan your time, think about opportunity costs of pursuing different paths, have sales funnels, marketing, scope things out, etc.
- burlesona 6y ago
  A side hustle is just fundamentally different than a full-time job. On the one hand, something else is paying the bills, so you can be patient. But on the other hand, you can't take meetings 9-5, or push nearly as hard on the work as you could if it was full time, so you have to be patient. It's quite difficult to work on something enough on the side to build momentum and get it rolling, and it's extra hard to maintain that momentum for long enough for it to reach "escape velocity," that is, to become profitable to where you can quit your day job. So the challenge of managing the two jobs, and specifically transitioning from day job + hobby (at the beginning), to two jobs but one doesn't really pay well, to finally quitting the first job so you can focus on the bootstrapped project... That's just a whole different beast from somebody who quits their job and starts a business (with or without raising money).

ngokevin 6y ago

I'm currently bootstrapping as a YC alumni, and I'm going through YC Startup School. The curriculum is just as valuable for bootstrappers! It's all about validating a problem, getting users, planning your time, etc. The core curriculum doesn't have anything about trying to get investors. There's one video about what YC looks for in a startup application, but even that's still useful for a bootstrapper (clarity of thought).