4 ms·

The reason jaywalking can be a crime is because a pedestrian crossing a road with cars in it in a non-designated location or at a non-designated time runs the r

The reason jaywalking can be a crime is because a pedestrian crossing a road with cars in it in a non-designated location or at a non-designated time runs the real risk of recklessly endangering others.

chrisseaton 6y ago
I know we're just going round in circles here... but why don't we make it the cars' responsibility to stop for pedestrians, instead of the pedestrians' responsibility to stop for cars? Why are we starting from the point of the default is that it is space for cars rather than people? Because cars take longer to stop? Well then how about the cars slow down in cities? Because cars are more dangerous? Well that sounds like a reason to restrict them, not the pedestrians.
- fastball 6y ago
  It's not one or the other, it's both. There are different types of routes. Some are: - built for humans to walk on[1]. Cars are not allowed on here at all. - built for cars to drive on[2]. See the big double yellow lines in the middle? That's how you know this part of the road was designed with cars in mind. However, because we don't have the money to build footbridges over every road, we put a zebra crossing in the middle of it so that pedestrians can cross between the routes that only they are allowed on. Cars get the right of way on roads because that's what we built them (or in the case of old roads that existed before cars, repurposed/maintain them) for. Just like we built the sidewalks/pavements/footpaths/footbridges/etc for pedestrians (and sometimes cyclists). Maybe part of the problem here is that you seem to be using "road" to mean "things people go on", when the rest of us are using the word road to mean "the things people drive on", and generally use other words to describe the things we've built specifically for walking on. [1] https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/w/images/8/8c/Pavement.jpg https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/w/images/8/8c/Pavement.... [2] https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/22110146/NYC-Open-Streets-West-End-Avenue.jpg https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/22110146/N...
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    But how did the cars end up with the prime space? Look at how much they've got here. The pedestrians are pushed to the side and squeezed. Why do we accept that? And why do we talk about pedestrians 'crossing the street'? How about instead we call crosswalks an extension of the sidewalk and talk about cars 'crossing the sidewalk'? How did we let cars get the upper hand on people? And why is anyone driving through a freaking city in the first place? Unless you're disabled, or delivering physical goods, what on earth are you doing? Get out!
    - fastball 6y ago
      Cars are bigger than people, which is why they get more space. People want to get from point A to point B, without it taking 2 hours to get there.
      - umanwizard 6y ago
        So why won’t cities build special-purpose infrastructure for me to drive a tank everywhere? It’s bigger, so surely I need bigger roads for it.
        fastball 6y ago
        Mostly because tanks aren't optimized for getting normal people from A to B as quickly and efficiently as possible, so we don't build infra for that. Also because approximately zero people have tanks for the aforementioned reasons. That being said, tanks aren't actually that big, so usually you can drive a tank on the road. Main problem is you need to stick to low speed roads because they don't go very fast.
    - bryan_w 6y ago
      > And why is anyone driving through a freaking city in the first place? Because I can, and there is literally nothing you can do about it. Heck, sometimes I just get in my car and drive for no reason at all, just because I have the freedom to do so.

chrisseaton 6y ago

I know we're just going round in circles here... but why don't we make it the cars' responsibility to stop for pedestrians, instead of the pedestrians' responsibility to stop for cars? Why are we starting from the point of the default is that it is space for cars rather than people? Because cars take longer to stop? Well then how about the cars slow down in cities? Because cars are more dangerous? Well that sounds like a reason to restrict them, not the pedestrians.

fastball 6y ago
It's not one or the other, it's both. There are different types of routes. Some are: - built for humans to walk on[1]. Cars are not allowed on here at all. - built for cars to drive on[2]. See the big double yellow lines in the middle? That's how you know this part of the road was designed with cars in mind. However, because we don't have the money to build footbridges over every road, we put a zebra crossing in the middle of it so that pedestrians can cross between the routes that only they are allowed on. Cars get the right of way on roads because that's what we built them (or in the case of old roads that existed before cars, repurposed/maintain them) for. Just like we built the sidewalks/pavements/footpaths/footbridges/etc for pedestrians (and sometimes cyclists). Maybe part of the problem here is that you seem to be using "road" to mean "things people go on", when the rest of us are using the word road to mean "the things people drive on", and generally use other words to describe the things we've built specifically for walking on. [1] https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/w/images/8/8c/Pavement.jpg https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/w/images/8/8c/Pavement.... [2] https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/22110146/NYC-Open-Streets-West-End-Avenue.jpg https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/22110146/N...
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  But how did the cars end up with the prime space? Look at how much they've got here. The pedestrians are pushed to the side and squeezed. Why do we accept that? And why do we talk about pedestrians 'crossing the street'? How about instead we call crosswalks an extension of the sidewalk and talk about cars 'crossing the sidewalk'? How did we let cars get the upper hand on people? And why is anyone driving through a freaking city in the first place? Unless you're disabled, or delivering physical goods, what on earth are you doing? Get out!
  - fastball 6y ago
    Cars are bigger than people, which is why they get more space. People want to get from point A to point B, without it taking 2 hours to get there.
    - umanwizard 6y ago
      So why won’t cities build special-purpose infrastructure for me to drive a tank everywhere? It’s bigger, so surely I need bigger roads for it.
      - fastball 6y ago
        Mostly because tanks aren't optimized for getting normal people from A to B as quickly and efficiently as possible, so we don't build infra for that. Also because approximately zero people have tanks for the aforementioned reasons. That being said, tanks aren't actually that big, so usually you can drive a tank on the road. Main problem is you need to stick to low speed roads because they don't go very fast.
  - bryan_w 6y ago
    > And why is anyone driving through a freaking city in the first place? Because I can, and there is literally nothing you can do about it. Heck, sometimes I just get in my car and drive for no reason at all, just because I have the freedom to do so.