5 ms·

There's another difference: in traditional publishing if you are almost (but not quite) ready for prime time, you have a chance at getting the help you need to

There's another difference: in traditional publishing if you are almost (but not quite) ready for prime time, you have a chance at getting the help you need to get your work into a saleable state before it's published. As long as your potential exceeds the current quality of your work, traditional publishers will work to help you develop that potential. If you are self-publishing, you'll take that same not-quite-ready work and publish it, and it will fail miserably. You'll get plenty of feedback telling your work isn't good enough, but little or none telling you what to do about it. Also, you will have established yourself as a second-rate self-publisher, decreasing the chances that anyone will bother trying any of your subsequent work, so even if you do manage to improve it won't matter because nobody will take the time to read your newer, better work.

pedrocr 15y ago
Self-published authors will get more and more frequent feedback from their actual customers. They can build direct relationships with fans. And it's not only about the support for individual authors it's also that more of them will try and a smaller number of sales will support each of them as their cut is now much bigger. Given the economics and the extra favorable dynamics in connecting with the audience it seems like a tall order to me that a publisher can add enough value to justify itself. For feedback on writing being mentored by other writers sounds much better, and to figure out what sells a direct relationship with your audience sounds like a much better deal. This is especially true as the number of books isn't artificially limited by the logistics of paper and everyone can be shooting for a niche of readers.
- lucasjung 15y ago
  I completely agree with you about the advantages of connecting directly with fans and making a living by taking a larger cut of smaller sales. As for the value currently provided by publishing companies, everything I've ever read by successful authors about their relationships with their editors when they were starting out indicates that the mentorship provided by the editors at traditional publishers is absolutely critical. I'm not saying that there aren't other ways to get such mentorship, I'm saying that right now traditional publishing companies are the only ones providing it effectively at scale. That's why I said, in my original post, that one of the requirements for disrupting the publishing industry is to come up with a new system for helping new writers grow. Having experienced authors provide mentorship sounds like a great idea--I would love to see someone execute it by building a system that connects aspiring writers with mentors, at scale.
  - pedrocr 15y ago
    I've been following this blog: http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/ http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/ It's by a traditionally published author that used to hold much of the same opinion as you and has now moved to self-publishing and argues that newcomers should do the same. If what publishers provide is good editors it would seem a simple solution would be for good editors to go freelance and take a direct cut of the sales.
    - lucasjung 15y ago
      I've read his blog posts on the subject. I've also read plenty of other posts that explain why his advice is terrible: self-publishing works for him because he already has a huge fan base, which he established while working through the traditional publishers. The following post, written by an outspoken proponent of e-books, deconstructs Konrath pretty thoroughly: http://mikecanex.wordpress.com/2010/12/29/joe-konrath-needs-to-shut-the-fuck-up/ http://mikecanex.wordpress.com/2010/12/29/joe-konrath-needs-... Key passage (original emphasis): 1) He has had books in print 2) He was not a total unknown 3) He busted his ass on the Net for years to get better known But many, many people are out there doing number 3 and getting nowhere. So for him to tout his New Religion while ignoring 1 and 2 is like those experiments Cory Doctorow periodically engages in, where he wants people to forget who he is, as if he’s starting from scratch, but while still using his well-known Cory Doctorow name. And that’s why I will always say Konrath’s name with an emphasis on con. Because unless you out there have numbers 1 and 2 and also 3 going for you, there is no damn way in hell you are going to even come close to the alleged number of sales Konrath brags about (over and over and over again…).
      - pedrocr 15y ago
        That didn't seem like a thorough deconstruction at all, just a bunch of mostly incoherent rambling that manages to confront Konrath's previous position with his new one and saying "look it has changed". And when part of the argument involves insulting the person... As for the only meat in the argument - that "many, many people are out there doing number 3 and getting nowhere"- it suffers from the bias I mentioned in my original reply. This is also true for print, you just don't see it because they don't get published at all. And even if the percentage of unsuccessful authors is higher for ebooks (for which no evidence is presented) that's ok since higher margins for authors and more direct access to their readers should be able to support more niche authors. The argument that Konrath does better than most because he has a backlog and name recognition is just comparing apples to oranges. Of course established authors will make more than newcomers. The real question is will an established ebook author earn more than an established print author. And the math I do there is that for the margin the publishers take they provide very little that can't be provided more efficiently, so they will die when they cease to be gatekeepers to distribution (very soon).
- MatthewPhillips 15y ago
  The main value publisher's can add is paying for promotion and giving an advance on sales. Self-publishing authors are either going to have to foot the bill on travel expenses to promote their books or they're going to have to stick to twitter and facebook. I think old style promotions is still necessary to have a big hit, if that's what you're going for.

pedrocr 15y ago

Self-published authors will get more and more frequent feedback from their actual customers. They can build direct relationships with fans. And it's not only about the support for individual authors it's also that more of them will try and a smaller number of sales will support each of them as their cut is now much bigger. Given the economics and the extra favorable dynamics in connecting with the audience it seems like a tall order to me that a publisher can add enough value to justify itself. For feedback on writing being mentored by other writers sounds much better, and to figure out what sells a direct relationship with your audience sounds like a much better deal. This is especially true as the number of books isn't artificially limited by the logistics of paper and everyone can be shooting for a niche of readers.

lucasjung 15y ago
I completely agree with you about the advantages of connecting directly with fans and making a living by taking a larger cut of smaller sales. As for the value currently provided by publishing companies, everything I've ever read by successful authors about their relationships with their editors when they were starting out indicates that the mentorship provided by the editors at traditional publishers is absolutely critical. I'm not saying that there aren't other ways to get such mentorship, I'm saying that right now traditional publishing companies are the only ones providing it effectively at scale. That's why I said, in my original post, that one of the requirements for disrupting the publishing industry is to come up with a new system for helping new writers grow. Having experienced authors provide mentorship sounds like a great idea--I would love to see someone execute it by building a system that connects aspiring writers with mentors, at scale.
- pedrocr 15y ago
  I've been following this blog: http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/ http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/ It's by a traditionally published author that used to hold much of the same opinion as you and has now moved to self-publishing and argues that newcomers should do the same. If what publishers provide is good editors it would seem a simple solution would be for good editors to go freelance and take a direct cut of the sales.
  - lucasjung 15y ago
    I've read his blog posts on the subject. I've also read plenty of other posts that explain why his advice is terrible: self-publishing works for him because he already has a huge fan base, which he established while working through the traditional publishers. The following post, written by an outspoken proponent of e-books, deconstructs Konrath pretty thoroughly: http://mikecanex.wordpress.com/2010/12/29/joe-konrath-needs-to-shut-the-fuck-up/ http://mikecanex.wordpress.com/2010/12/29/joe-konrath-needs-... Key passage (original emphasis): 1) He has had books in print 2) He was not a total unknown 3) He busted his ass on the Net for years to get better known But many, many people are out there doing number 3 and getting nowhere. So for him to tout his New Religion while ignoring 1 and 2 is like those experiments Cory Doctorow periodically engages in, where he wants people to forget who he is, as if he’s starting from scratch, but while still using his well-known Cory Doctorow name. And that’s why I will always say Konrath’s name with an emphasis on con. Because unless you out there have numbers 1 and 2 and also 3 going for you, there is no damn way in hell you are going to even come close to the alleged number of sales Konrath brags about (over and over and over again…).
    - pedrocr 15y ago
      That didn't seem like a thorough deconstruction at all, just a bunch of mostly incoherent rambling that manages to confront Konrath's previous position with his new one and saying "look it has changed". And when part of the argument involves insulting the person... As for the only meat in the argument - that "many, many people are out there doing number 3 and getting nowhere"- it suffers from the bias I mentioned in my original reply. This is also true for print, you just don't see it because they don't get published at all. And even if the percentage of unsuccessful authors is higher for ebooks (for which no evidence is presented) that's ok since higher margins for authors and more direct access to their readers should be able to support more niche authors. The argument that Konrath does better than most because he has a backlog and name recognition is just comparing apples to oranges. Of course established authors will make more than newcomers. The real question is will an established ebook author earn more than an established print author. And the math I do there is that for the margin the publishers take they provide very little that can't be provided more efficiently, so they will die when they cease to be gatekeepers to distribution (very soon).
MatthewPhillips 15y ago
The main value publisher's can add is paying for promotion and giving an advance on sales. Self-publishing authors are either going to have to foot the bill on travel expenses to promote their books or they're going to have to stick to twitter and facebook. I think old style promotions is still necessary to have a big hit, if that's what you're going for.