3 ms·

>I find it amusing that you say that, since I never implied any such thing. really? because four servings of coffee a day doesn't seem that much over the medi

by lsc 16y ago

>I find it amusing that you say that, since I never implied any such thing. really? because four servings of coffee a day doesn't seem that much over the median dose, at least among people I know, if you adjust for body size. When I'm on, I consume more caffeine than that. So, to me, suggesting that someone has a problem when the dosage is that close to the median suggests that you are criticizing the delivery method more than the dosage. While technically speaking many people (myself included) are 'addicted' to caffeine, I think comparing coffee dependence to something like alcohol dependence does not make a lot of sense; If I started every morning with a nice glass of scotch and finished a fifth every time I had real work to do, I'd likely be dead at this point. If I stop drinking caffeine, I sleep a lot and have a hard time getting work done. Some people get headaches. Withdrawal from long-term Alcohol abuse, on the other hand, often comes with hallucinations and sometimes death. Caffeine dependency isn't in the same class at all. In fact, while I agree that caffeine can be addictive, I'm not at all convinced that caffeine dependency is a bad thing.

drivebyacct2 16y ago
I'm not criticizing the medium at all. In terms of health benefits, eating a caffeine pill is healthier than consuming the equivalent amount of coffee. No doubt alcohol withdrawl is worse, but if we're performing comparative metrics, I can vaporize cannabis for two months straight and stop all of the sudden without so much as a thought. I drank a twelve pack of coke across 4 days and had headaches for that Friday and Saturday. I just don't know what you want me to say. It's not an addiction? Okay. Do you feel better? It's a chemical stimulant that you notice when you stop consuming it. You consume it so that you stay functional. You can sugar coat it or say that it's not like being addicted to alcohol, but it doesn't change the fact that if you cut it out for a few weeks, you'd be more productive without the cost, dependency or negative side effects of coffee. The fact that you KNOW that, and continue to drink it, quite frankly supports the notion that it's an addiction.
- KVFinn 16y ago
  People don't consume it just to stay functional, there are positives associated with caffeine that may outweigh the negatives. In particular, if you have any dementia in the family, it is one of the only known effective ways to reduce that risk. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21422521 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21422521 http://iospress.metapress.com/content/d885346618q57103/fulltext.html http://iospress.metapress.com/content/d885346618q57103/fullt... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19158424 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19158424 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20182054 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20182054 The most stunning result: http://health.usf.edu/nocms/publicaffairs/now/pdfs/JAD_Arendash_Caffeine.pdf http://health.usf.edu/nocms/publicaffairs/now/pdfs/JAD_Arend...
  - drivebyacct2 16y ago
    That's absolutely fair and I was slightly familiar with the idea of benefits of caffeine. Do I think that we were discussing these benefits? Not really. Like I said, I don't have a problem with people supplementing with caffeine. As I've mentioned, I do it occasionally, I just don't make it part of my daily routine.
- lsc 16y ago
  >I can vaporize cannabis for two months straight and stop all of the sudden without so much as a thought. Now, I have little personal experience, and I'm not an expert; but I /have/ seen people lose their jobs due to their performance being diminished because of habitual marijuana use. I've never seen anyone lose a job because of caffeine. I mean, I know plenty of people who use marijuana occasionally on the weekends and seem no worse for wear; from my understanding, it's not as bad as alcohol, and you may be right that it's not addictive, but it's certainly more harmful than Caffeine. >but it doesn't change the fact that if you cut it out for a few weeks, you'd be more productive without the cost, dependency or negative side effects of coffee. This is not true for me. Personally, I tend to ramp up my caffeine use slowly over a number of months, because I do develop a resistance. During these months, I am /significantly/ more effective than without caffeine, even if I quit for months. Now, I do build up a resistance, so every few months I quit for a while, as I do eventually get to the point where I have diminishing returns. For me, this doesn't result in headaches, just a few days of more sleep than usual and reduced performance. Assuming I get my 12 hours a day of sleep, the reduced performance is still much better than, say, a hangover. I'm up to baseline performance within a week. (my baseline performance is /significantly/ lower than my caffeinated performance.)
  - drivebyacct2 16y ago
    >but it's certainly more harmful than Caffeine. I'd love to see that claim backed up by one iota of science. Considering it takes less to overdose on caffeine, caffeine has actual chemical withdrawl symptoms, that cannabis has numerous anti-cancer properties that are acknowledged by everyone (including the governmental organizations tasked with analyzing it, etc) except the US government, etc. You're still missing the point anyway. You continue to discuss all the merits of caffeine and how you use it that specifically DEPICT how it is a habit forming drug and support all of my points. That's my only point, and you and this other guy keep repeating yourselves about how you're "good people" or something and defending yourselves from attacks that I'm not making. Thanks for the immediate downvote too. :) Cheers! tl;dr: I point out that caffeine is a habit forming stimulant, fellow HNer takes offense at the categorization, goes on downvoting spree and defends himself against attacks that I'm not making. Cool. Love to see that commenting continues to improve here.

by lsc 16y ago

drivebyacct2 16y ago

I'm not criticizing the medium at all. In terms of health benefits, eating a caffeine pill is healthier than consuming the equivalent amount of coffee. No doubt alcohol withdrawl is worse, but if we're performing comparative metrics, I can vaporize cannabis for two months straight and stop all of the sudden without so much as a thought. I drank a twelve pack of coke across 4 days and had headaches for that Friday and Saturday. I just don't know what you want me to say. It's not an addiction? Okay. Do you feel better? It's a chemical stimulant that you notice when you stop consuming it. You consume it so that you stay functional. You can sugar coat it or say that it's not like being addicted to alcohol, but it doesn't change the fact that if you cut it out for a few weeks, you'd be more productive without the cost, dependency or negative side effects of coffee. The fact that you KNOW that, and continue to drink it, quite frankly supports the notion that it's an addiction.

KVFinn 16y ago
People don't consume it just to stay functional, there are positives associated with caffeine that may outweigh the negatives. In particular, if you have any dementia in the family, it is one of the only known effective ways to reduce that risk. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21422521 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21422521 http://iospress.metapress.com/content/d885346618q57103/fulltext.html http://iospress.metapress.com/content/d885346618q57103/fullt... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19158424 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19158424 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20182054 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20182054 The most stunning result: http://health.usf.edu/nocms/publicaffairs/now/pdfs/JAD_Arendash_Caffeine.pdf http://health.usf.edu/nocms/publicaffairs/now/pdfs/JAD_Arend...
- drivebyacct2 16y ago
  That's absolutely fair and I was slightly familiar with the idea of benefits of caffeine. Do I think that we were discussing these benefits? Not really. Like I said, I don't have a problem with people supplementing with caffeine. As I've mentioned, I do it occasionally, I just don't make it part of my daily routine.
lsc 16y ago
>I can vaporize cannabis for two months straight and stop all of the sudden without so much as a thought. Now, I have little personal experience, and I'm not an expert; but I /have/ seen people lose their jobs due to their performance being diminished because of habitual marijuana use. I've never seen anyone lose a job because of caffeine. I mean, I know plenty of people who use marijuana occasionally on the weekends and seem no worse for wear; from my understanding, it's not as bad as alcohol, and you may be right that it's not addictive, but it's certainly more harmful than Caffeine. >but it doesn't change the fact that if you cut it out for a few weeks, you'd be more productive without the cost, dependency or negative side effects of coffee. This is not true for me. Personally, I tend to ramp up my caffeine use slowly over a number of months, because I do develop a resistance. During these months, I am /significantly/ more effective than without caffeine, even if I quit for months. Now, I do build up a resistance, so every few months I quit for a while, as I do eventually get to the point where I have diminishing returns. For me, this doesn't result in headaches, just a few days of more sleep than usual and reduced performance. Assuming I get my 12 hours a day of sleep, the reduced performance is still much better than, say, a hangover. I'm up to baseline performance within a week. (my baseline performance is /significantly/ lower than my caffeinated performance.)
- drivebyacct2 16y ago
  >but it's certainly more harmful than Caffeine. I'd love to see that claim backed up by one iota of science. Considering it takes less to overdose on caffeine, caffeine has actual chemical withdrawl symptoms, that cannabis has numerous anti-cancer properties that are acknowledged by everyone (including the governmental organizations tasked with analyzing it, etc) except the US government, etc. You're still missing the point anyway. You continue to discuss all the merits of caffeine and how you use it that specifically DEPICT how it is a habit forming drug and support all of my points. That's my only point, and you and this other guy keep repeating yourselves about how you're "good people" or something and defending yourselves from attacks that I'm not making. Thanks for the immediate downvote too. :) Cheers! tl;dr: I point out that caffeine is a habit forming stimulant, fellow HNer takes offense at the categorization, goes on downvoting spree and defends himself against attacks that I'm not making. Cool. Love to see that commenting continues to improve here.