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I have a totally boring "financial engineering"-related dream every time I need to replace a major appliance: I would gladly pay $X/mo for one appliance in perp

by pbnjay 6y ago

I have a totally boring "financial engineering"-related dream every time I need to replace a major appliance: I would gladly pay $X/mo for one appliance in perpetuity that I never have to think about it again. Give it a replaceable facade and no one would ever know when it's 10+ years old. I don't need fancy apps, or screens, I don't want the internet on my fridge... Just give me enough space for my food and keep it the right temperature! Same with the dishwasher, just make it work well and don't build everything out of plastic and I bet it would last a lot longer...

jpdaigle 6y ago
Water heaters and furnaces can be leased instead of purchased, for a few dollars a month. (But it's more expensive in the long run.) What's different about a furnace vs a fridge or dishwasher?
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  Furnace longevity depends on how good the owner is at maintaining clean filters, and water heaters depend on water quality. I'd find it difficult for either of those to be offered as-a-service at a reasonable price considering the aforementioned volatility versus just selling them since they're not that expensive in the first place.
  - alex7o 6y ago
    Yes but in that case it would be in the interest of the leaser to make the product be as easily maintainable as possible.
jlgaddis 6y ago
> ... it would last a lot longer ... But they can make more money if you buy a new one every 8 years instead of every 10.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  But "they" can make more money if they sell a better product than their competitors for the same price. There's no monopoly on dishwashers and other appliances. People simply choose to save money and go with cheaper items, or they can't afford ones that come with a 10 year warranty. Or maybe they don't exist. I know miele products exist, but not everyone wants to spring for Miele or Speed Queen washers or other higher quality builds that offer longer warranties. I know I'd rather save $1,000 or more, invest it, and take my chances with an appliance from Costco since I can get it with a 4 year warranty anyway. If it breaks after 4 years, I'll get a new one. Over the past 10 years, I haven't experienced any appliances breaking.
macspoofing 6y ago
>I would gladly pay $X/mo for one appliance in perpetuity that I never have to think about it again. That's a very common model. For example, our business didn't buy a printer/copier - rather it is pay-per-use and ostensibly under perpetual warranty while we're paying. If something breaks, a tech comes in and fixes it or replaces the unit. Coffee machines and commercial dishwashers are another example. All these can be leased and serviced for a monthly cost and typically don't require any up-front capital. It's very convenient but more expensive than an outright purchase. This model works well for commercial enterprises, but it just isn't worth for consumers. It's like car leases - bad deal for consumers, but attractive due to flexibility for businesses.
- pbnjay 6y ago
  That's the thing tho. Make it cheap enough to not be more expensive. Make it a quality product so there's little maintenance cost. Don't replace it every 10years and there's less overheard across the board.
  - bawolff 6y ago
    > Make it cheap enough to not be more expensive Are you expecting it to be cheaper to rent than buy in the long term? That's pretty impossible since the person you are renting from has to buy at least 1 and provide additional services. It doesnt matter how cheap you make it; x<x+1 for all x no matter how small x is.
    - hakfoo 6y ago
      I think there's a few possible angles here. * Cheap and Expensive as a subjective thing. Paying a $10 per month fridge bill in perpetuity may feel less uncomfortable than the sudden expense of a $700 fridge every 8 years, even though the latter is cheaper. * A service can take some of the bad-decision factors out of it. Many appliances are panic-bought when the previous unit fails, rather than waiting for the price to bottom out. A predictable lease price and service organization avoids that risk. It might not be as cheap as the cheapest unit on the best day, but it's competitive with a mid-line product. * The rental service product could benefit from economies of scale and standardization that direct-to-consumer brands don't offer. Whirlpool sells a few dozen different 25-cubic-foot fridges, with constant model churn. Any given model may only have a total run of a couple thousand units. Fridge-as-a-service may only offer one, and offer it for 10 years, allowing slower amortization of engineering costs and less expensive service/spares management. * A structured end-of-life program could bring down the cost of leasing. After five years, they swap out the old fridge, but then they can refurbish it and either return it to the lease pool or resell it in a less ad-hoc manner than listing individual units on Craigslist.
charrondev 6y ago
I just bought a dishwasher and the whole tub seems to be stainless steel. You just have to look at the higher end ones I guess. This one was a Bosch 500 series one.

by pbnjay 6y ago

jpdaigle 6y ago

Water heaters and furnaces can be leased instead of purchased, for a few dollars a month. (But it's more expensive in the long run.) What's different about a furnace vs a fridge or dishwasher?

lotsofpulp 6y ago
Furnace longevity depends on how good the owner is at maintaining clean filters, and water heaters depend on water quality. I'd find it difficult for either of those to be offered as-a-service at a reasonable price considering the aforementioned volatility versus just selling them since they're not that expensive in the first place.
- alex7o 6y ago
  Yes but in that case it would be in the interest of the leaser to make the product be as easily maintainable as possible.

jlgaddis 6y ago

> ... it would last a lot longer ... But they can make more money if you buy a new one every 8 years instead of every 10.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
But "they" can make more money if they sell a better product than their competitors for the same price. There's no monopoly on dishwashers and other appliances. People simply choose to save money and go with cheaper items, or they can't afford ones that come with a 10 year warranty. Or maybe they don't exist. I know miele products exist, but not everyone wants to spring for Miele or Speed Queen washers or other higher quality builds that offer longer warranties. I know I'd rather save $1,000 or more, invest it, and take my chances with an appliance from Costco since I can get it with a 4 year warranty anyway. If it breaks after 4 years, I'll get a new one. Over the past 10 years, I haven't experienced any appliances breaking.

macspoofing 6y ago

>I would gladly pay $X/mo for one appliance in perpetuity that I never have to think about it again. That's a very common model. For example, our business didn't buy a printer/copier - rather it is pay-per-use and ostensibly under perpetual warranty while we're paying. If something breaks, a tech comes in and fixes it or replaces the unit. Coffee machines and commercial dishwashers are another example. All these can be leased and serviced for a monthly cost and typically don't require any up-front capital. It's very convenient but more expensive than an outright purchase. This model works well for commercial enterprises, but it just isn't worth for consumers. It's like car leases - bad deal for consumers, but attractive due to flexibility for businesses.

pbnjay 6y ago
That's the thing tho. Make it cheap enough to not be more expensive. Make it a quality product so there's little maintenance cost. Don't replace it every 10years and there's less overheard across the board.
- bawolff 6y ago
  > Make it cheap enough to not be more expensive Are you expecting it to be cheaper to rent than buy in the long term? That's pretty impossible since the person you are renting from has to buy at least 1 and provide additional services. It doesnt matter how cheap you make it; x<x+1 for all x no matter how small x is.
  - hakfoo 6y ago
    I think there's a few possible angles here. * Cheap and Expensive as a subjective thing. Paying a $10 per month fridge bill in perpetuity may feel less uncomfortable than the sudden expense of a $700 fridge every 8 years, even though the latter is cheaper. * A service can take some of the bad-decision factors out of it. Many appliances are panic-bought when the previous unit fails, rather than waiting for the price to bottom out. A predictable lease price and service organization avoids that risk. It might not be as cheap as the cheapest unit on the best day, but it's competitive with a mid-line product. * The rental service product could benefit from economies of scale and standardization that direct-to-consumer brands don't offer. Whirlpool sells a few dozen different 25-cubic-foot fridges, with constant model churn. Any given model may only have a total run of a couple thousand units. Fridge-as-a-service may only offer one, and offer it for 10 years, allowing slower amortization of engineering costs and less expensive service/spares management. * A structured end-of-life program could bring down the cost of leasing. After five years, they swap out the old fridge, but then they can refurbish it and either return it to the lease pool or resell it in a less ad-hoc manner than listing individual units on Craigslist.

charrondev 6y ago

I just bought a dishwasher and the whole tub seems to be stainless steel. You just have to look at the higher end ones I guess. This one was a Bosch 500 series one.