5 ms·

I strongly disagree. We can argue where exactly the line should be, but most people should agree that pedestrian's shouldn't be able to just suddenly jump out i

by Sodman 6y ago

I strongly disagree. We can argue where exactly the line should be, but most people should agree that pedestrian's shouldn't be able to just suddenly jump out in front of a fast-moving stream of heavy traffic and expect everyone to stop across all lanes for them. As a society we have agreed that the laws in most places are "Pedestrians should cross the road at these designated spots, where they have right of way, sometimes only when given a specific signal". Sure, in some places it's become acceptable to cross the road outside of these "allowed" circumstances if you feel like there's no risk, but at that point you should also assume all liability. FWIW I am for the pedestrianization of city centers and adding protected bike lanes everywhere possible, but I do think when there is a road, we all have to follow the agreed upon rules.

chrisseaton 6y ago
> As a society we have agreed that the laws in most places are "Pedestrians should cross the road at these designated spots, where they have right of way, sometimes only when given a specific signal". For example this isn't the law in the UK. Yet our road death rate is a fraction of yours. > we all have to follow the agreed upon rules Yes we should... but the rules shouldn't be as they are in the US and Canada, with hostile rules like 'jaywalking'.
- Sodman 6y ago
  Actually the law in the UK is that Pedestrian's usually don't have the right of way outside of designated crossing areas [0]. Drivers are considered to have a "Heavy Duty of Care" since they are of course driving large dangerous vehicles and pedestrians are more vulnerable, but they still have the right of way on your average road. Road death rate is a very broad statistic. As an EU citizen living in the US, there are certainly more differences than road-crossing rules and etiquette. For one, population density is almost an order of magnitude more sparse in the US (36 people / km^2) vs the uk (275 people /km^2). This, among other things means there's a dramatic shift in driving norms. There are also major cultural differences, eg talking on the phone while driving in Ireland is taboo (and illegal), but in Boston it's totally normal (and perfectly legal). Drink driving here is far more acceptable too. The list goes on and on. [0]https://www.birchallblackburn.co.uk/do-pedestrians-always-have-right-of-way-on-roads/ https://www.birchallblackburn.co.uk/do-pedestrians-always-ha...
  - quicklyfrozen 6y ago
    It's probably still normal to talk on the phone while driving in Boston, but it's no longer legal unless hands-free.
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    Sure, but right-of-way isn't this bulletproof defence. You can have right-of-way and still be prosecuted for hitting a ped.
umanwizard 6y ago
> pedestrian's shouldn't be able to just suddenly jump out in front of a fast-moving stream of heavy traffic and expect everyone to stop across all lanes for them. I don’t agree. If you are driving too fast to stop for pedestrians, you are driving too fast, period. I’ll make an exception for protected major freeways, especially in rural areas. (Abominations like the I-5 going straight through the middle of Seattle should be illegal).
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  This would relegate your maximum speed to <5mph or so. That's less practical than just encouraging pedestrians not to be in the habit of darting out from between parked cars right into a lane of traffic.
  - umanwizard 6y ago
    Sounds like a great argument to ban cars from city centers entirely.
  - pkulak 6y ago
    No, 10 is fine, so long as you're paying attention. > less practical than just encouraging pedestrians By pedestrians, you actually mean "people". And it's all people. Little kids, people with mental disabilities, etc. What kind of "encouragement" is really going to keep everyone off the 50% of city land that we've turned into roads? Oh, except for the times you're allowed to be in the street. I've yet to meet an adult who even knows what an unmarked crosswalk is, but we're supposed to make sure every toddler knows this stuff or they die?
    - rootusrootus 6y ago
      > 10 is fine Having actually had someone dart out in front of me from between two parked cars when I was going about that speed, I don't really agree. Sure, I didn't hit them, but it was close and very dependent on reaction times for all involved. > 50% of city land It's more typically 30-35% > Little kids, people with mental disabilities Both hopefully supervised. It ain't just cars that will put defenseless people in peril. I get that you have a very strong ideological opposition to cars, but let's be practical. They aren't going away. Arguably the utility offered by personal transportation in the last century has driven a huge amount of growth. So short of going backwards, we continue to find ways to live with them. Elimination is a pipe dream of a few super privileged people.

by Sodman 6y ago

chrisseaton 6y ago

> As a society we have agreed that the laws in most places are "Pedestrians should cross the road at these designated spots, where they have right of way, sometimes only when given a specific signal". For example this isn't the law in the UK. Yet our road death rate is a fraction of yours. > we all have to follow the agreed upon rules Yes we should... but the rules shouldn't be as they are in the US and Canada, with hostile rules like 'jaywalking'.

Sodman 6y ago
Actually the law in the UK is that Pedestrian's usually don't have the right of way outside of designated crossing areas [0]. Drivers are considered to have a "Heavy Duty of Care" since they are of course driving large dangerous vehicles and pedestrians are more vulnerable, but they still have the right of way on your average road. Road death rate is a very broad statistic. As an EU citizen living in the US, there are certainly more differences than road-crossing rules and etiquette. For one, population density is almost an order of magnitude more sparse in the US (36 people / km^2) vs the uk (275 people /km^2). This, among other things means there's a dramatic shift in driving norms. There are also major cultural differences, eg talking on the phone while driving in Ireland is taboo (and illegal), but in Boston it's totally normal (and perfectly legal). Drink driving here is far more acceptable too. The list goes on and on. [0]https://www.birchallblackburn.co.uk/do-pedestrians-always-have-right-of-way-on-roads/ https://www.birchallblackburn.co.uk/do-pedestrians-always-ha...
- quicklyfrozen 6y ago
  It's probably still normal to talk on the phone while driving in Boston, but it's no longer legal unless hands-free.
- renewiltord 6y ago
  Sure, but right-of-way isn't this bulletproof defence. You can have right-of-way and still be prosecuted for hitting a ped.

umanwizard 6y ago

> pedestrian's shouldn't be able to just suddenly jump out in front of a fast-moving stream of heavy traffic and expect everyone to stop across all lanes for them. I don’t agree. If you are driving too fast to stop for pedestrians, you are driving too fast, period. I’ll make an exception for protected major freeways, especially in rural areas. (Abominations like the I-5 going straight through the middle of Seattle should be illegal).

rootusrootus 6y ago
This would relegate your maximum speed to <5mph or so. That's less practical than just encouraging pedestrians not to be in the habit of darting out from between parked cars right into a lane of traffic.
- umanwizard 6y ago
  Sounds like a great argument to ban cars from city centers entirely.
- pkulak 6y ago
  No, 10 is fine, so long as you're paying attention. > less practical than just encouraging pedestrians By pedestrians, you actually mean "people". And it's all people. Little kids, people with mental disabilities, etc. What kind of "encouragement" is really going to keep everyone off the 50% of city land that we've turned into roads? Oh, except for the times you're allowed to be in the street. I've yet to meet an adult who even knows what an unmarked crosswalk is, but we're supposed to make sure every toddler knows this stuff or they die?
  - rootusrootus 6y ago
    > 10 is fine Having actually had someone dart out in front of me from between two parked cars when I was going about that speed, I don't really agree. Sure, I didn't hit them, but it was close and very dependent on reaction times for all involved. > 50% of city land It's more typically 30-35% > Little kids, people with mental disabilities Both hopefully supervised. It ain't just cars that will put defenseless people in peril. I get that you have a very strong ideological opposition to cars, but let's be practical. They aren't going away. Arguably the utility offered by personal transportation in the last century has driven a huge amount of growth. So short of going backwards, we continue to find ways to live with them. Elimination is a pipe dream of a few super privileged people.