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Here in the Netherlands we also pay farmers for killed livestock. And nobody is happy with the situation we're in now. Not the farmers, not the public, not the

Here in the Netherlands we also pay farmers for killed livestock. And nobody is happy with the situation we're in now. Not the farmers, not the public, not the sheep and not even the environmentalists. Public support for wolves is growing, but only among people who don't know about the problems they cause. One of the main reason farmers hate wolves is because it's madness. A wolf kills 14 sheep in one night and only eats one, partly. That doesn't make it a very sympathetic animal. The Netherlands is very densely populated. Everyone was doing fine without the wolf. Now a couple of environmentalists use public money to try to reintroduce wolves in habitat that isn't able to support them. They got subsidies based on reports that promised no livestock would be harmed. Wolves would just limit themselves automagically to wildlife when there is enough wildlife to support them. This claim is demonstrably false. It's fraud. On top of that, the environmentalist arrogantly call everyone who doesn't love the wolf stupid, uninformed bigots. Like that helps.

pvaldes 6y ago
> the environmentalist arrogantly call everyone who doesn't love the wolf stupid Taking in mind how well we are doing in the last years, maybe would be wise to stop making fun of the environmentalists for a while. I'm still expecting the other part proposing a single valid solution that is not based in 'pay me because I'm unable to understand how to use a shepherd dog'.
- spiderfarmer 6y ago
  > a single valid solution Shoot the wolves is a single valid solution. But you don't want to hear it. And I think you don't know how shepherd dogs work. Otherwise you would have dismissed that as a valid solution too.
  - pvaldes 6y ago
    They are more valuable alive than dead. > You don't know how shepherd dogs work Sorry but the facts speak loudly. Last month I had personally visited the area of Europe with a biggest density of wolves (excepting maybe Chernobyl). We tried, and failed, to see a single wolf. There were cows munching all around. There was deer scattered all around the valley. I walked the oak forest alone without any problem. In this area a single human with a few dogs manages routinely 300 sheep without losing a single one by wolves. Not a single attack reported in the entire year. Humanity has being doing the same for 4000 years. Is perfectly possible.
    - spiderfarmer 6y ago
      So you want farmers to return to the practices of 4000 year ago. Please come back to earth. You really think farmers should go back to being sheep herders. You really think that’s viable. Wow. It’s Europe. The sheep herders you mentioned are heavily subsidized, either by the government or by NGO’s. That’s not a viable solution for farmers at all.
      - pvaldes 6y ago
        If you want fine sheep cheese, you need sheep herders. Period. Until today, nobody has managed to teach sheep how to milk themselves in a machine and send the product by certified mail.
        spiderfarmer 6y ago
        Milking sheep while keeping an eye out 24/7 for wolves. Got it. Seems like it’s not a viable way to live in the West. But that’s exactly what you want, isn’t it. You hate farmers and everything that’s detrimental to their business is a plus in your book.

pvaldes 6y ago

> the environmentalist arrogantly call everyone who doesn't love the wolf stupid Taking in mind how well we are doing in the last years, maybe would be wise to stop making fun of the environmentalists for a while. I'm still expecting the other part proposing a single valid solution that is not based in 'pay me because I'm unable to understand how to use a shepherd dog'.

spiderfarmer 6y ago
> a single valid solution Shoot the wolves is a single valid solution. But you don't want to hear it. And I think you don't know how shepherd dogs work. Otherwise you would have dismissed that as a valid solution too.
- pvaldes 6y ago
  They are more valuable alive than dead. > You don't know how shepherd dogs work Sorry but the facts speak loudly. Last month I had personally visited the area of Europe with a biggest density of wolves (excepting maybe Chernobyl). We tried, and failed, to see a single wolf. There were cows munching all around. There was deer scattered all around the valley. I walked the oak forest alone without any problem. In this area a single human with a few dogs manages routinely 300 sheep without losing a single one by wolves. Not a single attack reported in the entire year. Humanity has being doing the same for 4000 years. Is perfectly possible.
  - spiderfarmer 6y ago
    So you want farmers to return to the practices of 4000 year ago. Please come back to earth. You really think farmers should go back to being sheep herders. You really think that’s viable. Wow. It’s Europe. The sheep herders you mentioned are heavily subsidized, either by the government or by NGO’s. That’s not a viable solution for farmers at all.
    - pvaldes 6y ago
      If you want fine sheep cheese, you need sheep herders. Period. Until today, nobody has managed to teach sheep how to milk themselves in a machine and send the product by certified mail.
      - spiderfarmer 6y ago
        Milking sheep while keeping an eye out 24/7 for wolves. Got it. Seems like it’s not a viable way to live in the West. But that’s exactly what you want, isn’t it. You hate farmers and everything that’s detrimental to their business is a plus in your book.