3 ms·

If you're looking to a giant corporation's products to be a channel for the expression of your moral position, you're looking in the wrong places. Just the fac

If you're looking to a giant corporation's products to be a channel for the expression of your moral position, you're looking in the wrong places. Just the fact you want to buy their products speaks more than any 8 letters you can choose to engrave / "personalize" your dollars with. Go work to do real things, change real things. Corporations swing with the wind, and just as soon as they would support what movement you have this month, they might abandon the next. Do something that sticks.

ceilingcorner 6y ago
> If you're looking to a giant corporation's products to be a channel for the expression of your moral position, you're looking in the wrong places. That seems to be precisely what half of SV is looking for.
qazpot 6y ago
Slavoj Zizek makes a great point about this. He points out that starbucks donates some portion of the money you pay for coffee to alleviate poverty. But you as a customer are buying expensive coffee as well freedom from guilt of buying expensive coffee while a large number of people in world are poor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P18UK5IMRDI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P18UK5IMRDI
- supernova87a 6y ago
  I don't know whether it's the same topic (will watch later) but there was the economist's observation a few years ago that when you pay $0.10 extra for organic/free trade coffee in your cup, only less than $0.01 goes to the actual coffee farmer and even the related supply chain labor. (calculating what the coffee serving price difference should be from the market price of free trade beans per pound vs. normal) The rest of the 9c is just price discrimination of the coffee chain being able to see that you value the idea of supporting organic coffee farming and are willing to pay that much more, even though it doesn't translate into anywhere close to that for the actual people. Edit: you can check it yourself -- Fairtrade coffee reports to be sold at $1.80 per pound versus $1.40. A typical cup of coffee / shot espresso uses 15 grams. The cost difference is <$0.01. (I don't know if this is still sold as an option, not a coffee drinker myself)
notRobot 6y ago
While I agree with the first two paragraphs of your comment, it's rather naïve to think this: > Go work to do real things, change real things. There's little that people outside HK can do, and those HK citizens who can do something are already doing so by protesting, although it appears to (very unfortunately) be futile.
ashleshbiradar 6y ago
Right yes, lets totally absolve corporations by normalizing their behavior and instead call out individuals trying to exercise their freedom to write whatever they want on a product they are paying for.
- supernova87a 6y ago
  Anyone is totally free to carve/emboss/sharpie/sew those words into the pencil/shoes/car that they buy. No one is stopping you. And I think that would be more of a personal statement than having it drawn by a company's factory laser on an automated production line. You want the company to say the words along with you and agree with your position. But you've already lost. It's a bit like falling into the trap of brand advertising that screams, "Be yourself"... by buying one of our products. I'll just say again, if you put your faith into a corporation reflecting your moral convictions, you will often be disappointed.
  - whatatita 6y ago
    > You want the company to say the words along with you and agree with your position I disagree. When I engrave "I love you" on a watch, as a present for a loved one, I don't want the engraver to agree with me at all. The message isn't from them. It's from me. I couldn't care less if they agree or disagree with the sentiment. There's a message I want to convey and a person (or company) - the engraver - who is offering to engrave the message for me as a service. > if you put your faith into a corporation reflecting your moral convictions I think the trap we're falling into here is assuming that if Apple were to engrave the "liberate" message, that they would somehow be endorsing the message. That's madness. Nobody would expect them to be endorsing my "I love you" message for my wife if they engraved that, so why do we when it's a politialy charged message? As for why people get Apple to engrave the message rather than "carve/emboss/sharpie/sew" the message themselves; it's neater and looks good. I doubt most people spending hundreds of dollars want that "I sharpied this myself" look.

ceilingcorner 6y ago

> If you're looking to a giant corporation's products to be a channel for the expression of your moral position, you're looking in the wrong places. That seems to be precisely what half of SV is looking for.

qazpot 6y ago

Slavoj Zizek makes a great point about this. He points out that starbucks donates some portion of the money you pay for coffee to alleviate poverty. But you as a customer are buying expensive coffee as well freedom from guilt of buying expensive coffee while a large number of people in world are poor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P18UK5IMRDI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P18UK5IMRDI

supernova87a 6y ago
I don't know whether it's the same topic (will watch later) but there was the economist's observation a few years ago that when you pay $0.10 extra for organic/free trade coffee in your cup, only less than $0.01 goes to the actual coffee farmer and even the related supply chain labor. (calculating what the coffee serving price difference should be from the market price of free trade beans per pound vs. normal) The rest of the 9c is just price discrimination of the coffee chain being able to see that you value the idea of supporting organic coffee farming and are willing to pay that much more, even though it doesn't translate into anywhere close to that for the actual people. Edit: you can check it yourself -- Fairtrade coffee reports to be sold at $1.80 per pound versus $1.40. A typical cup of coffee / shot espresso uses 15 grams. The cost difference is <$0.01. (I don't know if this is still sold as an option, not a coffee drinker myself)

notRobot 6y ago

While I agree with the first two paragraphs of your comment, it's rather naïve to think this: > Go work to do real things, change real things. There's little that people outside HK can do, and those HK citizens who can do something are already doing so by protesting, although it appears to (very unfortunately) be futile.

ashleshbiradar 6y ago

Right yes, lets totally absolve corporations by normalizing their behavior and instead call out individuals trying to exercise their freedom to write whatever they want on a product they are paying for.

supernova87a 6y ago
Anyone is totally free to carve/emboss/sharpie/sew those words into the pencil/shoes/car that they buy. No one is stopping you. And I think that would be more of a personal statement than having it drawn by a company's factory laser on an automated production line. You want the company to say the words along with you and agree with your position. But you've already lost. It's a bit like falling into the trap of brand advertising that screams, "Be yourself"... by buying one of our products. I'll just say again, if you put your faith into a corporation reflecting your moral convictions, you will often be disappointed.
- whatatita 6y ago
  > You want the company to say the words along with you and agree with your position I disagree. When I engrave "I love you" on a watch, as a present for a loved one, I don't want the engraver to agree with me at all. The message isn't from them. It's from me. I couldn't care less if they agree or disagree with the sentiment. There's a message I want to convey and a person (or company) - the engraver - who is offering to engrave the message for me as a service. > if you put your faith into a corporation reflecting your moral convictions I think the trap we're falling into here is assuming that if Apple were to engrave the "liberate" message, that they would somehow be endorsing the message. That's madness. Nobody would expect them to be endorsing my "I love you" message for my wife if they engraved that, so why do we when it's a politialy charged message? As for why people get Apple to engrave the message rather than "carve/emboss/sharpie/sew" the message themselves; it's neater and looks good. I doubt most people spending hundreds of dollars want that "I sharpied this myself" look.