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Do I like this? No. Do I approve of this? No. But does it surprise me? Also no. Apple has time and time again chosen to take the side of oppressive regimes (by

Do I like this? No. Do I approve of this? No. But does it surprise me? Also no. Apple has time and time again chosen to take the side of oppressive regimes (by banning apps in HK that help protesters, forcing Telegram to remove chat groups that help protesters in Belarus, etc). It is to be expected. In all such cases, the protestors are on the right side of history by fighting oppressive/authoritarian regimes. But Apple (like most corporations) only really cares about money at the end of the day. If they don't do stuff like this, it'll just lead to them being banned from operating in these countries. Then they won't be able to make money. It is what it is. Long gone are the days in which Google refused to operate in China because it was asked to censor searches. The only reason Google search doesn't operate in China today is because leads to massive backlash each time they try to go back on that decision. But if Google's current management had been in place back then, they would have never made that stand in the first place. Ethical public companies simply cannot exist in this world.

fierarul 6y ago
At what point is Apple's policy on these matters equivalent to IBM's involvement in 1940s Germany?
- supernova87a 6y ago
  That is really a stretch. Need a sense of proportion. At that point, we should all first be protesting Microsoft Excel and Windows software, Ford Motors, all of our Wyoming coal producing mines, Boeing, and more, for providing products that much more directly enable China to do what it's doing, than someone's inability to write a word on a pencil.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- finnthehuman 6y ago
  2017. But I'm just picking when Human Rights Watch reported on the internment camps. I'm sure I could be convinced that the date is earlier. I don't understand why everyone thinks they would boldly oppose Nazis like an action star hero, but when millions are imprisoned in concentration camps in China they're kind of like "meh."
  - sieabahlpark 6y ago
    > but when millions are imprisoned in concentration camps in China they're kind of like "meh." They just cry "RUSSIAN DISINFORMATION" and move on with their life thinking they saved the world. Modern day virtue signaling is the cancer which our society needs to figure out how to get rid of.
simion314 6y ago
I am also not surprise that when other company does this same thing the comments and votes/flags are much different.
dahele 6y ago
"Reimagining Capitalism" by Rebecca Henderson is an eye-opening book that outlines very clearly defined steps that would force corporations to take more social responsibility. Here's my take on the book: Capitalism at its best works wonderfully, but the checks and balances that are needed for capitalism to work for the good of society are broken. Most countries across the world do not have a truly free press or even semi-functional democracy. We're hurtling towards a climate disaster, with no signs of slowing down, as well as facing massive global inequality. Corporations are succeeding at present, but the single-minded focus on pleasing shareholders above all else is not sustainable and _will_ come back to hurt everyone, not least corporations. It's a classic case of the prisoner's dilemma - each corporation individually does better by ignoring societal damage, but if all of them do so, the whole system will eventually collapse - whether due to climate disaster, a collapse of buying power from impoverished masses, or a global pandemic. Henderson argues that "only the relentless pressure of the free market can drive the kind of transformative innovation at scale [that we require]". The solution is to first fix democracy - get money out of politics, and fix the voting system. A representative government can agree on common goals and implement polices that harness the free market to work towards these agreed goals - eg. a carbon tax. Henderson also puts hope in "collective action" - corporations working together voluntarily, towards common stated goals. I'm a little sceptical of this last part. Azeem Azhar (Exponential View) did a great interview with Henderson - https://hbr.org/podcast/2020/06/reimagining-capitalism-for-a-broken-world https://hbr.org/podcast/2020/06/reimagining-capitalism-for-a...
- bamboozled 6y ago
  Thanks for sharing, will checkout the podcast.

fierarul 6y ago

At what point is Apple's policy on these matters equivalent to IBM's involvement in 1940s Germany?

supernova87a 6y ago
That is really a stretch. Need a sense of proportion. At that point, we should all first be protesting Microsoft Excel and Windows software, Ford Motors, all of our Wyoming coal producing mines, Boeing, and more, for providing products that much more directly enable China to do what it's doing, than someone's inability to write a word on a pencil.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
finnthehuman 6y ago
2017. But I'm just picking when Human Rights Watch reported on the internment camps. I'm sure I could be convinced that the date is earlier. I don't understand why everyone thinks they would boldly oppose Nazis like an action star hero, but when millions are imprisoned in concentration camps in China they're kind of like "meh."
- sieabahlpark 6y ago
  > but when millions are imprisoned in concentration camps in China they're kind of like "meh." They just cry "RUSSIAN DISINFORMATION" and move on with their life thinking they saved the world. Modern day virtue signaling is the cancer which our society needs to figure out how to get rid of.

simion314 6y ago

I am also not surprise that when other company does this same thing the comments and votes/flags are much different.

dahele 6y ago

"Reimagining Capitalism" by Rebecca Henderson is an eye-opening book that outlines very clearly defined steps that would force corporations to take more social responsibility. Here's my take on the book: Capitalism at its best works wonderfully, but the checks and balances that are needed for capitalism to work for the good of society are broken. Most countries across the world do not have a truly free press or even semi-functional democracy. We're hurtling towards a climate disaster, with no signs of slowing down, as well as facing massive global inequality. Corporations are succeeding at present, but the single-minded focus on pleasing shareholders above all else is not sustainable and _will_ come back to hurt everyone, not least corporations. It's a classic case of the prisoner's dilemma - each corporation individually does better by ignoring societal damage, but if all of them do so, the whole system will eventually collapse - whether due to climate disaster, a collapse of buying power from impoverished masses, or a global pandemic. Henderson argues that "only the relentless pressure of the free market can drive the kind of transformative innovation at scale [that we require]". The solution is to first fix democracy - get money out of politics, and fix the voting system. A representative government can agree on common goals and implement polices that harness the free market to work towards these agreed goals - eg. a carbon tax. Henderson also puts hope in "collective action" - corporations working together voluntarily, towards common stated goals. I'm a little sceptical of this last part. Azeem Azhar (Exponential View) did a great interview with Henderson - https://hbr.org/podcast/2020/06/reimagining-capitalism-for-a-broken-world https://hbr.org/podcast/2020/06/reimagining-capitalism-for-a...

bamboozled 6y ago
Thanks for sharing, will checkout the podcast.