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The worst is that as soon as Facebook detects the stink on the internet of this, they will rectify the situation for ArsTechnica, but everyone else will still b

The worst is that as soon as Facebook detects the stink on the internet of this, they will rectify the situation for ArsTechnica, but everyone else will still be screwed. When you are dealing with virtual monopolies that have zero customer support and negative processes (Facebook, Google, etc) getting locked out does not mean that you get go somewhere else, it literally mean getting locked out of an entire aspect of your life and/or business... Think about it: all your friends are on facebook, you get banned, where are you going to go, which other social site are you going to use? Facebook did not make facebook popular, the users did. Virtual monopolies need to recognize this, that they have a responsibility to the users.

jpadvo 16y ago
In an update to the post: "As evidenced by our updates and comments, many people seem to be affected by this, and some of them don't have as loud megaphones as we do. We'll continue trying to find out why this process is the way it is, and if it will ever be changed." Ars is talking about helping everyone else by trying to get a better process in place. I really hope they follow through on this -- Facebook could certainly use a dose of due process.
- deleted 16y ago
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Apocryphon 16y ago
I definitely agree. I believe that Facebook, Google, and Apple have some of the worst customer service out there due to their huge natures. Trying to get a straight answer from them is like trying to scale a completely smooth monolith.
- kmfrk 16y ago
  I think that as soon as there's some vagueness about what you are paying the companies for, and how you are paying for them (Google Checkout, Free Facebook, Apple App Store), all consumer concerns are forfeit. Conversely, when you pay for a physical Apple product like a Macbook, consumer laws make it much clearer what services and guarantees the company must provide its customers. More in the same vein: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2087120 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2087120.
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hammock 16y ago
Why should facebook care? They are a "monopoly" that you willingly submitted yourself to. They created a great service and you bought into it. If all your friends are on facebook then that's you and your friends' own damn fault. "It's not fair! Facebook has a responsibility to its users! I demand them to do such and such!" So what if facebook was never around? You are in debt to them for such a great service, they never forced you to become so dependent. People lived for tens of thousands of years without social networking, and they'll continue to do so.
- esmevane 16y ago
  I can't help but think this blame mentality is the root of a lot of problems with the intended discourse, here. The issue at hand isn't whether or not Facebook has the power to do this, but rather that the system is intrinsically moronic in that it involves no checks and balances. It is trivial to abuse. You don't like a company's Facebook fan page, and you can have it removed with a little effort into building an email. You don't actually have to prove anything, just wave your hands. In essence, you seem to be defending the right of Facebook's public users to disable accounts and pages on Facebook on a whim. Is that correct?
  - hammock 16y ago
    I am defending Facebook's right to deal with the stuff it publishes however it wishes. You don't have a contract with Facebook that they store and display your content, as you would a book publisher or private hosting service. With Facebook you voluntarily post your content, and they voluntarily publish it for free. They have no obligation to you to keep it up there for any reason whatsoever. If you want to guarantee the stability of your content, you need to get a contract or host it yourself. Facebook doesn't owe you anything.
    - falcolas 16y ago
      On the contrary - Facebook owes it's users everything. Without them, Facebook does not exist. Every user provides Facebook with content, which Facebook then monetizes using ads. Every user also views those ads, directly earning Facebook money. To assume that since there is no legal contract between a user and Facebook, Facebook has no need to treat its users well is simply untrue. The users make Facebook, not the other way around.
tokenadult 16y ago
In what sense are you or I customers of Google or Facebook if we don't pay money to either company to use any of their services?
- adsr 16y ago
  That is interesting, we are not their customers but their resource. Their real customers are the companies that they sell our data to.
mattdeboard 16y ago
I really dislike this high-minded morality drama that seems to crop up on the Internet when Facebook or Google or Apple does something stupid. If losing your Facebook page (or Twitter account or regular call-in segment on your local morning talk show or any other marketing vehicle) would be a serious blow to your online strategy, then Facebook has much too prominent a spot in your online strategy. Whatever happened to making your business's website the destination for consumers? I fucking despise Facebook as much as anyone else, but I am finding it a little difficult mustering up sympathy for any business or blogger whose business is impacted disproportionately by losing their Facebook page. It's like programmers who build their entire business around a company's API. When the company decides to drastically alter the terms of use of that API, it's catastrophic for the programmer's company. It's terrible for the hacker, yes, but "don't put all your eggs in one basket" is a cliche for a reason.
- hartror 16y ago
  You go to your customer's preferred method of communication. If your customers are predominantly Facebook users then that is where you go. Our customers are mostly teens and the best way to reach them and keep them engaged is through Facebook where our response rates are off the charts. Email on the other hand sometimes feels like it is more likely to bounce than to get read. And practically none of them use Twitter.
  - mattdeboard 16y ago
    >You go to your customer's preferred method of communication I didn't say not to have a presence on Facebook, did I? The social media/new media/online strategy for a great many companies and publications -- I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was >50% of the top 1000 companies in America -- consists solely of having a Facebook fan page. They might have a website where you can buy their actual product. However, if, "Come visit us on Facebook!" is the extent of your online presence strategy, you're exposing your brand and your strategy to huge risks. Have a Facebook presence. Make it part of your strategy. But don't be an idiot and make it "Our Facebook/Twitter Strategy." You might think that's silly, and no one would do it, but by god there are a LOT of idiots in the world.

jpadvo 16y ago

In an update to the post: "As evidenced by our updates and comments, many people seem to be affected by this, and some of them don't have as loud megaphones as we do. We'll continue trying to find out why this process is the way it is, and if it will ever be changed." Ars is talking about helping everyone else by trying to get a better process in place. I really hope they follow through on this -- Facebook could certainly use a dose of due process.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

Apocryphon 16y ago

I definitely agree. I believe that Facebook, Google, and Apple have some of the worst customer service out there due to their huge natures. Trying to get a straight answer from them is like trying to scale a completely smooth monolith.

kmfrk 16y ago
I think that as soon as there's some vagueness about what you are paying the companies for, and how you are paying for them (Google Checkout, Free Facebook, Apple App Store), all consumer concerns are forfeit. Conversely, when you pay for a physical Apple product like a Macbook, consumer laws make it much clearer what services and guarantees the company must provide its customers. More in the same vein: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2087120 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2087120.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

hammock 16y ago

Why should facebook care? They are a "monopoly" that you willingly submitted yourself to. They created a great service and you bought into it. If all your friends are on facebook then that's you and your friends' own damn fault. "It's not fair! Facebook has a responsibility to its users! I demand them to do such and such!" So what if facebook was never around? You are in debt to them for such a great service, they never forced you to become so dependent. People lived for tens of thousands of years without social networking, and they'll continue to do so.

esmevane 16y ago
I can't help but think this blame mentality is the root of a lot of problems with the intended discourse, here. The issue at hand isn't whether or not Facebook has the power to do this, but rather that the system is intrinsically moronic in that it involves no checks and balances. It is trivial to abuse. You don't like a company's Facebook fan page, and you can have it removed with a little effort into building an email. You don't actually have to prove anything, just wave your hands. In essence, you seem to be defending the right of Facebook's public users to disable accounts and pages on Facebook on a whim. Is that correct?
- hammock 16y ago
  I am defending Facebook's right to deal with the stuff it publishes however it wishes. You don't have a contract with Facebook that they store and display your content, as you would a book publisher or private hosting service. With Facebook you voluntarily post your content, and they voluntarily publish it for free. They have no obligation to you to keep it up there for any reason whatsoever. If you want to guarantee the stability of your content, you need to get a contract or host it yourself. Facebook doesn't owe you anything.
  - falcolas 16y ago
    On the contrary - Facebook owes it's users everything. Without them, Facebook does not exist. Every user provides Facebook with content, which Facebook then monetizes using ads. Every user also views those ads, directly earning Facebook money. To assume that since there is no legal contract between a user and Facebook, Facebook has no need to treat its users well is simply untrue. The users make Facebook, not the other way around.

tokenadult 16y ago

In what sense are you or I customers of Google or Facebook if we don't pay money to either company to use any of their services?

adsr 16y ago
That is interesting, we are not their customers but their resource. Their real customers are the companies that they sell our data to.

mattdeboard 16y ago

I really dislike this high-minded morality drama that seems to crop up on the Internet when Facebook or Google or Apple does something stupid. If losing your Facebook page (or Twitter account or regular call-in segment on your local morning talk show or any other marketing vehicle) would be a serious blow to your online strategy, then Facebook has much too prominent a spot in your online strategy. Whatever happened to making your business's website the destination for consumers? I fucking despise Facebook as much as anyone else, but I am finding it a little difficult mustering up sympathy for any business or blogger whose business is impacted disproportionately by losing their Facebook page. It's like programmers who build their entire business around a company's API. When the company decides to drastically alter the terms of use of that API, it's catastrophic for the programmer's company. It's terrible for the hacker, yes, but "don't put all your eggs in one basket" is a cliche for a reason.

hartror 16y ago
You go to your customer's preferred method of communication. If your customers are predominantly Facebook users then that is where you go. Our customers are mostly teens and the best way to reach them and keep them engaged is through Facebook where our response rates are off the charts. Email on the other hand sometimes feels like it is more likely to bounce than to get read. And practically none of them use Twitter.
- mattdeboard 16y ago
  >You go to your customer's preferred method of communication I didn't say not to have a presence on Facebook, did I? The social media/new media/online strategy for a great many companies and publications -- I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was >50% of the top 1000 companies in America -- consists solely of having a Facebook fan page. They might have a website where you can buy their actual product. However, if, "Come visit us on Facebook!" is the extent of your online presence strategy, you're exposing your brand and your strategy to huge risks. Have a Facebook presence. Make it part of your strategy. But don't be an idiot and make it "Our Facebook/Twitter Strategy." You might think that's silly, and no one would do it, but by god there are a LOT of idiots in the world.