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Apple refuses to engrave ‘liberate’ protest slogan on HK customer’s Apple Pencil
- gear54rus 6y agoGreedy corp is afraid of losing totalitarian regime's market, news at 11.
- lki876 6y agoLet's not lose focus of what really matters here: money.
- mercurialfck 6y agoThat's the only thing Tim Cook cares about. Products are just a means to further that end. That's why the products have gone to the shitter and all the cool people left.
- wizzzzzy 6y agoDo all engravement requests have to be approved by several tiers of heirachy before getting made?
- rainingcatndogs 6y agoThey probably have a list of phrases that will be sent for manual review.
- unityByFreedom 6y agoIf the engraving happens in China then most likely yes.
- Y_Y 6y agoWhat about that great 1984 commercial?
- fwiwm2c 6y agoAre you using an iPhone or Mac? If yes, why don't you start with yourself. Apple exists because consumers love and buy their products - irrespective of their policy decisions.
- reallydontask 6y agoI'm forced to use a Mac at work. What should I do? look for another job?
- pjmlp 6y agoSome people would actually do that.
- jonkho 6y agoVictimhood need not apply here. On balance, your employer decides the benefits of using a Mac outweighs the cons. On balance, you decide the benefits of staying on the job outweighs the cons of using a Mac. The world is not perfect and is not meant to be. You however do get to weigh your choices, make your tradeoffs and act on it.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- pengaru 6y agoYes. Who we choose to work for and where we spend our money are the two primary powers every individual wields.
- whatatita 6y ago> Who we choose to work for [is one of the] primary powers every individual wields. Unfortunately, that's just not true. The vast mahority of people on lower income cannot aford to be choosy with who they work for. A great many higher earning software developers (HN's usual market) are in the same position. I agree that encouraging the few people who can afford the luxury of being choosy to vote with their feet is a good thing, but don't assume everyone has that same "primary power".
- justinzollars 6y agoThe 21st century will be the Chinese century
- bamboozled 6y agoFeels like it is already? Look at the state of the "union", bunch of people screaming at each other over mask wearing and conspiracy theories, what a sad state of affairs.
- mrtksn 6y agoI am not sure if this is sarcasm or not, however their way of doing things certainly is on the winning side. Even the USA is trying to ban apps and articles for national security reasons. You can't start directly by making companies afraid of engraving something questionable on a pencil, you start with baby steps. Some time later everyone becomes a patriot or a traitor, then you can have companies self censoring engravings on pencils so they don't get the traitor label.
- fwiwm2c 6y ago"Liberate" is different from "Liberate HKers". Please make the topic headline more accurate. And it is obvious why Apple will not allow this in China/HK.
- newbie578 6y agoI thought Apple was "socially aware"?
- tibbydudeza 6y agoSteve Jobs was never the idealist like Wozniak - sure he wanted to build great consumer products but wanted to nickle and dime you for it.
- mns 6y agoWell they did remove the charger to help the environment and indirectly help society...
- differentView 6y agoMisleading headline. He was trying to engrave "LIBERATE HKERS".
- neetrain 6y agoWhere is it trying to mislead to? That means, it is natural that Apple refused "LIBERATE HKERS" and "Liberate" is not? I can't see the difference.
- ponker 6y ago"Liberate" doesn't bother China who Apple is heavily reliant on?
- neetrain 6y agoIf the title were "Apple refuses to engrave ‘liberate’ on a customer’s Apple Pencil, and this is why", I might be confused and would say it's misleading, or a clickbait. However, coupled with the context of the HK protest, the point of the article is obvious. It's not misleading title IMO.
- villgax 6y agoEveryone got it, what difference does that make regarding the censorship by local employees?
- EvilEy3 6y agoCompany refuses to do what's bad for business, news at 10.
- thih9 6y agoI was confused by the title, at first I thought they refused to engrave the word “liberate”.
- bmcn2020 6y agoisn't...that what happened? at least, that's part of the phrase: ...The customer, alias Mr. Chan, told Apple Daily that he got a call from an Apple employee on Wednesday saying that their “higher-ups didn’t approve” of his proposed inscription, “Liberate HKERS.”
- thih9 6y agoI meant that based on the title I thought they refused to engrave the word “liberate”. As in: somebody wanted to engrave just the word "liberate" and Apple refused.
- adrianh 6y agoSimilar story: Back in 2001, Jonah Peretti requested the word "sweatshop" engraved on his Nike shoes. They refused the request, and it became a Thing. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/nike-id-sweatshop-e-mail-controversy https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/nike-id-sweatshop-e-ma... Peretti later went on to found BuzzFeed.
- gherkinnn 6y agoI’ve always wondered how much human intervention they add to the engraving. “cunt” can’t even be submitted, but “c u n t” could be last time I tried. Didn’t order it, just had a laugh. One could also go with Scunthorpe and add some Tipex. (Yes, I’m twelve and think that’s funny) On a related note: a few months ago I read an article about how Disney(?) tried to sensor “bad words” in one of their Habbo-Hotel like apps for kids. Starting with blacklists, moving to whitelists, then trying a scratch-like building blocks. People would start to arrange sofas to talk to each other. You can’t really stop it. Can’t find it anymore though.
- nbzso 6y agoIt is simple: Don't vote for Apple with your money. Especially iPhones. But wait they are tinkering with search engine project. They will support freedom of speech, or not. Interesting times we live in, very interesting.:)
- onion2k 6y agoDon't vote for Apple with your money. That's a good approach to showing a company you don't approve of what they're doing, but in the case of tech who should people use instead? Every tech company is involved with China on some level (if not directly then their suppliers are); they all do things that support the Chinese government. I agree that Apple are wrong here, but I don't see how buying from another company that's also wrong solves anything.
- nbzso 6y agoYes I agree, this is nearly impossible but let me try to think for a moment. I am long time Apple user, and can remember a time, when this company checked all my professional boxes. Clean industrial design, user friendly interface, high quality pro software (Final Cut Studio, Soundtrack Pro, Motion, Shake, etc), UNIX based, perfect ergonomic features and port connectivity. Long hardware life (I use in my home music studio Apple Cinema 30" and it still is working perfectly) may be best industrial design for display ever. So, did I find resemblance in Apple of today? No. Today Apple is money printing machine with ultra polished marketing promotion and clever cost cutting strategy in manufacturing processes. Today Apple is focused on keeping the profit top spot. Yes I still use Mac OS, but more and more lean towards Linux based desktop. I see a future for creative people away from dichotomy of Mac/Windows boxes. There are enough new software (DaVinci Resolve, Blender) what is missing is someone like Affinity to port their apps to Linux and we will have a good start. May be if we buy Linux phones as early adopters, things will change somewhat, I don't know. What I know is that we as professionals must take action and stop closing our eyes, I personally share with everybody my point of view. We are good at influencing our clients, friends. In the old Apple era, I have turned a lot of people from Windows to Mac.
- bamboozled 6y ago
- tibbydudeza 6y agoWhy is this news ???.
- notRobot 6y agoDo I like this? No. Do I approve of this? No. But does it surprise me? Also no. Apple has time and time again chosen to take the side of oppressive regimes (by banning apps in HK that help protesters, forcing Telegram to remove chat groups that help protesters in Belarus, etc). It is to be expected. In all such cases, the protestors are on the right side of history by fighting oppressive/authoritarian regimes. But Apple (like most corporations) only really cares about money at the end of the day. If they don't do stuff like this, it'll just lead to them being banned from operating in these countries. Then they won't be able to make money. It is what it is. Long gone are the days in which Google refused to operate in China because it was asked to censor searches. The only reason Google search doesn't operate in China today is because leads to massive backlash each time they try to go back on that decision. But if Google's current management had been in place back then, they would have never made that stand in the first place. Ethical public companies simply cannot exist in this world.
- fierarul 6y agoAt what point is Apple's policy on these matters equivalent to IBM's involvement in 1940s Germany?
- supernova87a 6y agoThat is really a stretch. Need a sense of proportion. At that point, we should all first be protesting Microsoft Excel and Windows software, Ford Motors, all of our Wyoming coal producing mines, Boeing, and more, for providing products that much more directly enable China to do what it's doing, than someone's inability to write a word on a pencil.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- finnthehuman 6y ago2017. But I'm just picking when Human Rights Watch reported on the internment camps. I'm sure I could be convinced that the date is earlier. I don't understand why everyone thinks they would boldly oppose Nazis like an action star hero, but when millions are imprisoned in concentration camps in China they're kind of like "meh."
- ceilingcorner 6y agoIt's hard not to be cynical about Apple's supposed commitment to social justice issues in America when they do stuff like this abroad. Apple under Tim Cook may be succeeding financially, but their hypocrisy is becoming too much to ignore. At least Jobs had the decency to try and be apolitical.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- classified 6y agoIf I should ever buy an Apple Pencil, I will order a "Liberate HKers" inscription for moral support. But then, I don't live in Chinese jurisdiction. Corporations won't support us in the development of civil society, that's our own job. They will abide by the rules of whoever is in power in their respective regions of operation. Their purpose is to make money and if that requires that they engage in slavery, torture, or mass murder, they will do just that. Consult the history books for examples.
- supernova87a 6y agoIf you're looking to a giant corporation's products to be a channel for the expression of your moral position, you're looking in the wrong places. Just the fact you want to buy their products speaks more than any 8 letters you can choose to engrave / "personalize" your dollars with. Go work to do real things, change real things. Corporations swing with the wind, and just as soon as they would support what movement you have this month, they might abandon the next. Do something that sticks.
- ceilingcorner 6y ago> If you're looking to a giant corporation's products to be a channel for the expression of your moral position, you're looking in the wrong places. That seems to be precisely what half of SV is looking for.
- qazpot 6y agoSlavoj Zizek makes a great point about this. He points out that starbucks donates some portion of the money you pay for coffee to alleviate poverty. But you as a customer are buying expensive coffee as well freedom from guilt of buying expensive coffee while a large number of people in world are poor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P18UK5IMRDI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P18UK5IMRDI
- supernova87a 6y agoI don't know whether it's the same topic (will watch later) but there was the economist's observation a few years ago that when you pay $0.10 extra for organic/free trade coffee in your cup, only less than $0.01 goes to the actual coffee farmer and even the related supply chain labor. (calculating what the coffee serving price difference should be from the market price of free trade beans per pound vs. normal) The rest of the 9c is just price discrimination of the coffee chain being able to see that you value the idea of supporting organic coffee farming and are willing to pay that much more, even though it doesn't translate into anywhere close to that for the actual people. Edit: you can check it yourself -- Fairtrade coffee reports to be sold at $1.80 per pound versus $1.40. A typical cup of coffee / shot espresso uses 15 grams. The cost difference is <$0.01. (I don't know if this is still sold as an option, not a coffee drinker myself)
- mercurialfck 6y agoIDGAFF. DIY with a laser engraver. Better yet, buy from a different vendor who isn't in China's pocket.
- pacificleo12 6y agohere's to the crazy ones
- dusted 6y agoWell, I guess Apple really do Think Different. At least different than the rest of the civilized world, but that's not too surprising either given their history.
- coldtea 6y agoBecause the rest of the civilized world (including all other US businesses) doesn't do business like crazy with China? Or doesn't do business with the US, a bigger global bully, with active wars and occupations, etc?
- villgax 6y agoSome next level censorship by local Apple employees, probably don't want to get caught in crosshairs after it blows up
- bamboozled 6y agoI was thinking of buying a new iPad, I'm pretty turned off now. Disgusted really.
- benlumen 6y ago"The higher-ups" are screening engravement messages? Call me naive but that sounds like nonsense. At least, it SHOULD be nonsense. If true they must be terrified of upsetting the CCP.
- unityByFreedom 6y agoMy guess is the engraving happens in China, so not so surprising that the CCP keeps a tight grip on the wording lest its citizens see it.
- AnonC 6y agoIf this, and other decisions by Apple for China makes you upset or angry, do email the CEO Tim Cook (his email address is easily found online) and let him know your displeasure and that you’re not going to buy things from the company as much as you used to. I don’t think he reads HN or any other forum regularly. Quote back to him his own statements in interviews where he has emphasized that Apple supports human rights. Also quote other areas where Apple has spoken for the people (like “Dreamers”, for example). Ask why Apple is being so hypocritical. Well written correspondence can get through, and can make a difference down the line.
- ryankrage77 6y agoSurely it will go straight to spam? He can't possibly be manually reviewing emails sent to his public email address. And if he does have some intern reviewing them, they aren't going to forward your criticism.
- TearsInTheRain 6y agoThis is the chilling effect of our close economic ties to oppressive regimes. I dont know if we can expect Apple to stand up to China. I think our government needs to do more to set the parameters of our economic interactions with them.
- unityByFreedom 6y agoI'm guessing the engraving happens in China. No way the CCP lets that happen. It's like ordering a set of "free hk" t-shirts from a Chinese printer.