5 ms·

Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

71 points by aeontech 6y ago

sharadov 6y ago
"In Vietnam in 2007, in Brazil in 2011, in Pennsylvania in 2013, and in Indonesia in 2014, Foxconn announced enormous factories that either fell far short of promises or never appeared." Wow! Smoke and mirrors on an epic scale!
- s5300 6y ago
  Ya ever hear about dem Dubya Em Deez Smoke and mirrors seems to be quite a practiced and honed tactic of a certain political power within the U.S.
  - Rebelgecko 6y ago
    Foxconn is Taiwanese
    - s5300 6y ago
      I think you seriously missed the joke my friend.
      - youtube-dl2 6y ago
        I got the joke as I am from Wisconsin. The HackerNews republicans downvoted you.
    - anigbrowl 6y ago
      The joke is that Foxconn looked at the (then) Republican leadership in Wisconsin and saw the ideal business partners.
moltar 6y ago
This is what happens when governments meddle with a free market by offering tax cuts and cash incentives. The businesses optimize for the wrong thing.
- unicornporn 6y ago
  > The businesses optimize for the wrong thing. The wrong thing for whom exactly?
  - peteretep 6y ago
    The person offering the incentive, obviously
    - Buge 6y ago
      I wouldn't say person but rather country or citizens. It might actually be beneficial for an individual politician but bad for the country as a whole.
baron816 6y ago
Republican state leaders sure do talk a lot about being pro-business. It is interesting that California and Washington headquarter all four of the world’s trillion dollar public companies, plus a boatload of $100B+ companies, and vibrant startup centers. Businesses care about things other than low taxes. Hiring well educated and talented people is certainly top of the list. States that want to grow their economies should focus on making attracting/maintaining/developing those types of people. That means focusing on livability (livability != low cost of living).
- baron816 6y ago
  Adding on here, I think you can make a pretty good argument that California does capitalism better than anyone else in the world. Just within a few miles of each other, you have Apple, Google, Facebook, Tesla, Nvidia, Adobe, PayPal, Netflix, Intel, Oracle, and Salesforce. All worth >$150B.
  - nitrogen 6y ago
    That those business are concentrated in such a small area would seem to suggest it's not because of California, but in spite of it. Concentration begets concentration, so when you have a preexisting concentration of tech companies, that concentration will continue almost regardless of the local or statewide political environment.
    - bamboozled 6y ago
      Even still, why aren't said companies concentrated in other states ? It kind of makes sense they're geographically pretty close? If you were going to start a tech company in 2010, why wouldn't you build near other campuses ? Hiring etc would be so much easier. You'd be at a disadvantage to be in another part of California?
  - thekyle 6y ago
    Seems like your arguing that Silicon Valley does capitalism better then anywhere else in the world. If it were a California thing then you would expect similar results in more than one city within the state.
aeontech 6y ago
Excellent reporting, I think. It’s offering some fascinating insight into Foxconn internals where warring fiefdoms of business units mean insane amounts of wasted human effort (not that that is unique to Foxconn). That also offers an interesting contrast to the recent post on Apple internal organization of the business into functional lines instead of product units (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24903764 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24903764)
tsjq 6y ago
10days ago : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24831809 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24831809 https://www.theverge.com/21507966/foxconn-empty-factories-wisconsin-jobs-loophole-trump https://www.theverge.com/21507966/foxconn-empty-factories-wi... [off topic] If R wins this time, it is a huge failure on the so many protests & rallies: to not have converted those into votes against R .
_RPL5_ 6y ago
I don't understand what Foxconn's endgame is. Did they really have a good-faith plan to build a mega factory going into this? And then they failed because of befuddling incompetence as the article suggests? Or did they do the whole thing as a Potemkin village to curry favor with the Trump administration? If so, where did they cash it in? Seems convoluted. Occam's razor says it was incompetence, but how does Foxconn get on in the world if they are so dysfunctional? Shouldn't they be bankrupt by now?
- ikerdanzel 6y ago
  Ford did something similar in Brazil many decades ago. Google too with its massive book scanning many years ago. I think it is more of incompetence and gutsy "let's try" like a bridge to nowhere hoping dumb luck to happen. Yahoo's investment in Alibaba is a good example. No one would say Yahoo has incredible Buffet-level-competent team knowing Alibaba is great investment prior.

71 points by aeontech 6y ago

"In Vietnam in 2007, in Brazil in 2011, in Pennsylvania in 2013, and in Indonesia in 2014, Foxconn announced enormous factories that either fell far short of promises or never appeared." Wow! Smoke and mirrors on an epic scale!

s5300 6y ago
Ya ever hear about dem Dubya Em Deez Smoke and mirrors seems to be quite a practiced and honed tactic of a certain political power within the U.S.
- Rebelgecko 6y ago
  Foxconn is Taiwanese
  - s5300 6y ago
    I think you seriously missed the joke my friend.
    - youtube-dl2 6y ago
      I got the joke as I am from Wisconsin. The HackerNews republicans downvoted you.
  - anigbrowl 6y ago
    The joke is that Foxconn looked at the (then) Republican leadership in Wisconsin and saw the ideal business partners.

moltar 6y ago

This is what happens when governments meddle with a free market by offering tax cuts and cash incentives. The businesses optimize for the wrong thing.

unicornporn 6y ago
> The businesses optimize for the wrong thing. The wrong thing for whom exactly?
- peteretep 6y ago
  The person offering the incentive, obviously
  - Buge 6y ago
    I wouldn't say person but rather country or citizens. It might actually be beneficial for an individual politician but bad for the country as a whole.

baron816 6y ago

Republican state leaders sure do talk a lot about being pro-business. It is interesting that California and Washington headquarter all four of the world’s trillion dollar public companies, plus a boatload of $100B+ companies, and vibrant startup centers. Businesses care about things other than low taxes. Hiring well educated and talented people is certainly top of the list. States that want to grow their economies should focus on making attracting/maintaining/developing those types of people. That means focusing on livability (livability != low cost of living).

baron816 6y ago
Adding on here, I think you can make a pretty good argument that California does capitalism better than anyone else in the world. Just within a few miles of each other, you have Apple, Google, Facebook, Tesla, Nvidia, Adobe, PayPal, Netflix, Intel, Oracle, and Salesforce. All worth >$150B.
- nitrogen 6y ago
  That those business are concentrated in such a small area would seem to suggest it's not because of California, but in spite of it. Concentration begets concentration, so when you have a preexisting concentration of tech companies, that concentration will continue almost regardless of the local or statewide political environment.
  - bamboozled 6y ago
    Even still, why aren't said companies concentrated in other states ? It kind of makes sense they're geographically pretty close? If you were going to start a tech company in 2010, why wouldn't you build near other campuses ? Hiring etc would be so much easier. You'd be at a disadvantage to be in another part of California?
- thekyle 6y ago
  Seems like your arguing that Silicon Valley does capitalism better then anywhere else in the world. If it were a California thing then you would expect similar results in more than one city within the state.

aeontech 6y ago

Excellent reporting, I think. It’s offering some fascinating insight into Foxconn internals where warring fiefdoms of business units mean insane amounts of wasted human effort (not that that is unique to Foxconn). That also offers an interesting contrast to the recent post on Apple internal organization of the business into functional lines instead of product units (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24903764 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24903764)

tsjq 6y ago

10days ago : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24831809 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24831809 https://www.theverge.com/21507966/foxconn-empty-factories-wisconsin-jobs-loophole-trump https://www.theverge.com/21507966/foxconn-empty-factories-wi... [off topic] If R wins this time, it is a huge failure on the so many protests & rallies: to not have converted those into votes against R .

_RPL5_ 6y ago

I don't understand what Foxconn's endgame is. Did they really have a good-faith plan to build a mega factory going into this? And then they failed because of befuddling incompetence as the article suggests? Or did they do the whole thing as a Potemkin village to curry favor with the Trump administration? If so, where did they cash it in? Seems convoluted. Occam's razor says it was incompetence, but how does Foxconn get on in the world if they are so dysfunctional? Shouldn't they be bankrupt by now?

ikerdanzel 6y ago
Ford did something similar in Brazil many decades ago. Google too with its massive book scanning many years ago. I think it is more of incompetence and gutsy "let's try" like a bridge to nowhere hoping dumb luck to happen. Yahoo's investment in Alibaba is a good example. No one would say Yahoo has incredible Buffet-level-competent team knowing Alibaba is great investment prior.