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I don’t see the actual harm here. Malls have operated security cameras for decades. These people added a facial recognition system to generate population statis

by avalys 6y ago

I don’t see the actual harm here. Malls have operated security cameras for decades. These people added a facial recognition system to generate population statistics (age, gender) and track anonymous individuals as they move around the mall. So what? Who was harmed? Who could be harmed?

criddell 6y ago
Now what if they decide to link that data up with driver license photos or social media data to de-anonymize as many people as they can. Would you still say there's no actual harm here?
- voisin 6y ago
  I would argue that if the data is stored, it is only a matter of time before it becomes monetized in the manner you are mentioning. There has to be a firewall to prevent that step being taken. Mindlessly filming for future review in the event of a security issue is one thing. Intelligently analyzing the frames for identification purposes is where the feeling of “my privacy has been invaded, or could easily be in the future via storage of my likeness” comes from. I don’t see this as a victimless act - just that the victimization is uncertain at present but almost 100% certain to occur the more this behaviour occurs.
  - criddell 6y ago
    They know you walked from Baby Gap to the food court, bought a pretzel, then left via the doors by California Pizza Kitchen. If you sue the mall, the court may agree your privacy has been violated and now are asking you to come up with a dollar figure for the harm done. How do you do that?
    - voisin 6y ago
      This argument assumes the court is looking only for compensatory damages whereas punitive damages are likely more applicable in an invasion of privacy case like this. No direct damages but the social implications demand a “whack on the nose” via punitive damages.
- kapuasuite 6y ago
  To do what with, though? Use it to blackmail you? Use it to track you down and murder you? That’s harm - collecting and analyzing data is not.
  - criddell 6y ago
    Privacy is a human right according to the UN. Whenever your rights are violated you've been harmed.
    - kapuasuite 6y ago
      The UN isn’t the arbiter of what constitutes a human right.
ada1981 6y ago
I imagine they used this to also serve up suggestions on the kiosk. Mens vs Womens, Bongs vs. Bath linens, etc. the NYC subway system has big human sized iphone like map displays complete with a facetime camera, presumably capturing the same stuff.
pletsch 6y ago
The release also says it was stored in a 3rd party DB and that they apparently didn't know that
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

by avalys 6y ago

criddell 6y ago

Now what if they decide to link that data up with driver license photos or social media data to de-anonymize as many people as they can. Would you still say there's no actual harm here?

voisin 6y ago
I would argue that if the data is stored, it is only a matter of time before it becomes monetized in the manner you are mentioning. There has to be a firewall to prevent that step being taken. Mindlessly filming for future review in the event of a security issue is one thing. Intelligently analyzing the frames for identification purposes is where the feeling of “my privacy has been invaded, or could easily be in the future via storage of my likeness” comes from. I don’t see this as a victimless act - just that the victimization is uncertain at present but almost 100% certain to occur the more this behaviour occurs.
- criddell 6y ago
  They know you walked from Baby Gap to the food court, bought a pretzel, then left via the doors by California Pizza Kitchen. If you sue the mall, the court may agree your privacy has been violated and now are asking you to come up with a dollar figure for the harm done. How do you do that?
  - voisin 6y ago
    This argument assumes the court is looking only for compensatory damages whereas punitive damages are likely more applicable in an invasion of privacy case like this. No direct damages but the social implications demand a “whack on the nose” via punitive damages.
kapuasuite 6y ago
To do what with, though? Use it to blackmail you? Use it to track you down and murder you? That’s harm - collecting and analyzing data is not.
- criddell 6y ago
  Privacy is a human right according to the UN. Whenever your rights are violated you've been harmed.
  - kapuasuite 6y ago
    The UN isn’t the arbiter of what constitutes a human right.

ada1981 6y ago

I imagine they used this to also serve up suggestions on the kiosk. Mens vs Womens, Bongs vs. Bath linens, etc. the NYC subway system has big human sized iphone like map displays complete with a facetime camera, presumably capturing the same stuff.

pletsch 6y ago

The release also says it was stored in a 3rd party DB and that they apparently didn't know that

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]