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> Ask Europeans how much fun it is to have civil wars in the neighbourhood. It's absolutely no trouble until it spills over the border into your country.

mrtksn 6y ago
And how do you achieve that? Build a wall? Shoot the intruders? deploy WMDs? The moment you choose to close your eyes what's going on in your neighbourhood the fabric of your society tears apart because the morality in the society crumbles. You will have people who know people and love people beyond the border, you will have people who believe in a philosophy that teaches to help those in need,you have people who are not happy about how your society works but were keeping it to themselves because killing other human beings was not an option but now it is an option obviously. Not only that, there will be people competing for power in your lucky society and the people in need and all the issues in your society will be tools to gain power. Things wont also happen in one day, those in need will have things to offer to people in your society - anything prohibited, anything that those in power deny to those who want power. It will spill over, there's no way around it. Unless maybe you have some kind of monarchy where everyone knows it's place and follows the orders, doesn't question authority and doesn't aspire to move between classes. How do you turn democracies into this thing? To decide who is the king who is the servant you will need civil wars, so it will definitely spill over.
- PeterisP 6y ago
  Well, barbed wire on borders and militarised border guards who are authorised to shoot tresspassers outside of the official crossing points are a thing on quite a few borders, and used to be even more common just a few decades ago, e.g. the Warsaw pact and USSR borders. It's not a pleasant option, but it is an option that countries can choose to take if the circumstances suggest that it's in their best interest. The last 25 years have seen a trend of more open borders in and around Europe, but if the circumstances change, that trend can reverse itself. And while such closed borders are more common in various dictatorships, given the political trends we're seeing in many elections worldwide, it's not particularly implausible that such policies could get majority support also in democratic countries if the economic conditions deteriorate, for example, because of climate change.

mrtksn 6y ago

And how do you achieve that? Build a wall? Shoot the intruders? deploy WMDs? The moment you choose to close your eyes what's going on in your neighbourhood the fabric of your society tears apart because the morality in the society crumbles. You will have people who know people and love people beyond the border, you will have people who believe in a philosophy that teaches to help those in need,you have people who are not happy about how your society works but were keeping it to themselves because killing other human beings was not an option but now it is an option obviously. Not only that, there will be people competing for power in your lucky society and the people in need and all the issues in your society will be tools to gain power. Things wont also happen in one day, those in need will have things to offer to people in your society - anything prohibited, anything that those in power deny to those who want power. It will spill over, there's no way around it. Unless maybe you have some kind of monarchy where everyone knows it's place and follows the orders, doesn't question authority and doesn't aspire to move between classes. How do you turn democracies into this thing? To decide who is the king who is the servant you will need civil wars, so it will definitely spill over.

PeterisP 6y ago
Well, barbed wire on borders and militarised border guards who are authorised to shoot tresspassers outside of the official crossing points are a thing on quite a few borders, and used to be even more common just a few decades ago, e.g. the Warsaw pact and USSR borders. It's not a pleasant option, but it is an option that countries can choose to take if the circumstances suggest that it's in their best interest. The last 25 years have seen a trend of more open borders in and around Europe, but if the circumstances change, that trend can reverse itself. And while such closed borders are more common in various dictatorships, given the political trends we're seeing in many elections worldwide, it's not particularly implausible that such policies could get majority support also in democratic countries if the economic conditions deteriorate, for example, because of climate change.