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"The most straightforward modern equivalent to Turchin's "elite" nobility would not be people with advanced degrees" I disagree here. The closest equivalent wo

"The most straightforward modern equivalent to Turchin's "elite" nobility would not be people with advanced degrees" I disagree here. The closest equivalent would be people in academia, specifically the portions of academia that don't perform useful work. Basically, the "X studies" crowd. And that's exactly where we see the most political instability coming from these days.

asdff 6y ago
I don't know why you mark people in pursuit of domain knowledge for the wider world as some evil elite, when there are people who exist to solely pursue personal profit at the cost of everyone else. These capitalists are the ones buying political adspace, spreading misinformation, and driving a wedge in the working class that directly leads to the polarized hyperpartisan political environment we have today. Not some underpaid humanities professor. The fact that you reflexively blame the academic is evidence that the propaganda from these moneyed groups is working as designed.
- elindbe2 6y ago
  I have to disagree that many of these programs are pursuing "knowledge" at all. They're pursuing a victim mentality and simply make up rationalizations as they go along and call it knowledge. And they're the ones filing into positions in the mainstream media and other circles (like social media gatekeepers) devoted to spreading misinformation.
  - joe_biden123 6y ago
    the important part is they are all "elites", and whether their work is productive or not is not that important. they are separated from the masses at lagre by something. it could be college education or senatorial status or a noble title the details doesn't matter. they are elites doesn't mean they are "evil", and all societies need elites. there are just some positions they compete for and if there are not enough to go around sociaty can pay for it. the important part is not to overproduce elites
joe_biden123 6y ago
the beauty of turchin's equations is that they seem to be universal. what elites are doesn't depend much on details, except that they are possible to exist because there is a surplus produced by the peasants, slaves or in the modern era, supermarket workers or 3rd worlders. today's elites are those who were able to work from home while being served by those people essentially.
Shorel 6y ago
And I deeply disagree with you. If we are looking for people who earn lots of money for no real tangible work, the people who work in tax exempt churches and congregations are much higher in that list than people in academia. All modern prophets, pastors, speakers, con artists and so on. People in academia don't buy a new SUV every year, while these talkers do. And right now, with the Covid crisis, we need the work of the academics. Not the whatever they do in the talkers group.

asdff 6y ago

I don't know why you mark people in pursuit of domain knowledge for the wider world as some evil elite, when there are people who exist to solely pursue personal profit at the cost of everyone else. These capitalists are the ones buying political adspace, spreading misinformation, and driving a wedge in the working class that directly leads to the polarized hyperpartisan political environment we have today. Not some underpaid humanities professor. The fact that you reflexively blame the academic is evidence that the propaganda from these moneyed groups is working as designed.

elindbe2 6y ago
I have to disagree that many of these programs are pursuing "knowledge" at all. They're pursuing a victim mentality and simply make up rationalizations as they go along and call it knowledge. And they're the ones filing into positions in the mainstream media and other circles (like social media gatekeepers) devoted to spreading misinformation.
- joe_biden123 6y ago
  the important part is they are all "elites", and whether their work is productive or not is not that important. they are separated from the masses at lagre by something. it could be college education or senatorial status or a noble title the details doesn't matter. they are elites doesn't mean they are "evil", and all societies need elites. there are just some positions they compete for and if there are not enough to go around sociaty can pay for it. the important part is not to overproduce elites

joe_biden123 6y ago

the beauty of turchin's equations is that they seem to be universal. what elites are doesn't depend much on details, except that they are possible to exist because there is a surplus produced by the peasants, slaves or in the modern era, supermarket workers or 3rd worlders. today's elites are those who were able to work from home while being served by those people essentially.

Shorel 6y ago

And I deeply disagree with you. If we are looking for people who earn lots of money for no real tangible work, the people who work in tax exempt churches and congregations are much higher in that list than people in academia. All modern prophets, pastors, speakers, con artists and so on. People in academia don't buy a new SUV every year, while these talkers do. And right now, with the Covid crisis, we need the work of the academics. Not the whatever they do in the talkers group.