5 ms·

So they're hoping that they can replace the people they fired with open source contributors working for free.

by DC-3 6y ago

airstrike 6y ago
If the alternative is to close shop and let it die entirely, I don't have an issue with it It's not like they were extremely profitable and fired people to squeeze an extra buck Laying off people isn't inherently evil
- thayne 6y ago
  I have more of a problem with who they laid off than the fact that they laid people off. I'm probably biased as an engineer, but IMO the people who actually create your products should be the last ones to be laid off, not the first. And if the company is struggling, highly paid execs should take a pay cut before you start laying off lower-paid engineers.
  - ruined 6y ago
    hey, firing people is hard work.
- weego 6y ago
  It's more the clear mismanagement of their finances on ill-considered products outside of their core offering that never go anywhere. Some of them appear to be nothing more than vanity projects that subsequently disappear having got no traction at all.
  - airstrike 6y ago
    Managing is inherently risky –– we shouldn't expect managers to make no mistakes while at the same time expecting them to keep workers around in an unprofitable business would only serve to further harm the business Sure, one can rant all one wants about management's lack of business acumen, but that's completely separate from the issue of the layoffs
  - tracker1 6y ago
    I still think they are/were in a great position to offer what is now office365 and google docs earlier on, with a position to offer both dedicated and cloud software options. They had electron effectively a decade before electron with XULrunner and let it die on the vine. There were opportunities for developer mindshare and for services adjacent to those tools they were already building... that they didn't do more for getting Thunderbird more competitive to Outlook to offering a better breed of messenger platform. No, their management sat on fat cash, with fat paychecks and ill-conceived projects that lead to little in terms of mindshare or income longevity.
parhamn 6y ago
Man these kind of views bother me so much. They’re taking one of the most (if not, most) useful documentation sources for cross platform web development that benefits them very little, and moving it to a system of open contribution so it can live past the company’s financial problems. And this is your first take?
- DC-3 6y ago
  As far as I can see, Mozilla have no reason to be losing money other than their own mismanagement.
  - roblabla 6y ago
    This is an article about MDN, not Mozilla. How exactly does MDN bring money? Do you suggest MDN should be a revenue source? Or do you expect Mozilla to maintain the MDN for free eternally just because? This is seriously entitled. Mozilla gave us an amazing resource, entirely for free. This attitude isn't right, it's toxic and harmful. Mozilla is in a spot of difficulty, and instead of taking a resource that is operating entirely at a loss down, they're taking the engineering steps to ensure thez resource can outlive them. That their mismanagement caused them the difficulty is entirely irrelevant here. It could have happened in a myriad of other ways. We should be praising Mozilla and the MDN tech team for the steps they're taking in making sure the MDN can live on.
    - eznzt 6y ago
      It's stuff like MDN that attracts donations.
      - johnfn 6y ago
        Fun fact: I have an open source repo with millions of downloads, tens of thousands of active users, and, for at least a year, a prominently displayed donate button. How much in donations do you think it took in over its lifetime? Hint: it's less than $200. Donations don't really work.
preommr 6y ago
I read it more as they cleaned up the contribution process so that it's easier for people to participate. But if what you said does happen, then RIP. It's not going to be the same - everyone is too busy writing medium articles to sell their course on udemy to make real contributions for free. There were a lot of useful guides showing practical applications of features beyond just listing the api spec. But I guess it'll still be useful as a more approachable wiki to api standards rather than having to go to w3schools (yuck) or the horrible ui of w3c.
- trynewideas 6y ago
  Nevermind that work on Yari started at least a year prior to the layoffs in question. https://github.com/mdn/yari https://github.com/mdn/yari
gostsamo 6y ago
So, you want to use it for free, but whoever makes it to be paid by someone else?

So they're hoping that they can replace the people they fired with open source contributors working for free.

by DC-3 6y ago

So they're hoping that they can replace the people they fired with open source contributors working for free.

If the alternative is to close shop and let it die entirely, I don't have an issue with it It's not like they were extremely profitable and fired people to squeeze an extra buck Laying off people isn't inherently evil

thayne 6y ago
I have more of a problem with who they laid off than the fact that they laid people off. I'm probably biased as an engineer, but IMO the people who actually create your products should be the last ones to be laid off, not the first. And if the company is struggling, highly paid execs should take a pay cut before you start laying off lower-paid engineers.
- ruined 6y ago
  hey, firing people is hard work.
weego 6y ago
It's more the clear mismanagement of their finances on ill-considered products outside of their core offering that never go anywhere. Some of them appear to be nothing more than vanity projects that subsequently disappear having got no traction at all.
- airstrike 6y ago
  Managing is inherently risky –– we shouldn't expect managers to make no mistakes while at the same time expecting them to keep workers around in an unprofitable business would only serve to further harm the business Sure, one can rant all one wants about management's lack of business acumen, but that's completely separate from the issue of the layoffs
- tracker1 6y ago
  I still think they are/were in a great position to offer what is now office365 and google docs earlier on, with a position to offer both dedicated and cloud software options. They had electron effectively a decade before electron with XULrunner and let it die on the vine. There were opportunities for developer mindshare and for services adjacent to those tools they were already building... that they didn't do more for getting Thunderbird more competitive to Outlook to offering a better breed of messenger platform. No, their management sat on fat cash, with fat paychecks and ill-conceived projects that lead to little in terms of mindshare or income longevity.

parhamn 6y ago

Man these kind of views bother me so much. They’re taking one of the most (if not, most) useful documentation sources for cross platform web development that benefits them very little, and moving it to a system of open contribution so it can live past the company’s financial problems. And this is your first take?

DC-3 6y ago
As far as I can see, Mozilla have no reason to be losing money other than their own mismanagement.
- roblabla 6y ago
  This is an article about MDN, not Mozilla. How exactly does MDN bring money? Do you suggest MDN should be a revenue source? Or do you expect Mozilla to maintain the MDN for free eternally just because? This is seriously entitled. Mozilla gave us an amazing resource, entirely for free. This attitude isn't right, it's toxic and harmful. Mozilla is in a spot of difficulty, and instead of taking a resource that is operating entirely at a loss down, they're taking the engineering steps to ensure thez resource can outlive them. That their mismanagement caused them the difficulty is entirely irrelevant here. It could have happened in a myriad of other ways. We should be praising Mozilla and the MDN tech team for the steps they're taking in making sure the MDN can live on.
  - eznzt 6y ago
    It's stuff like MDN that attracts donations.
    - johnfn 6y ago
      Fun fact: I have an open source repo with millions of downloads, tens of thousands of active users, and, for at least a year, a prominently displayed donate button. How much in donations do you think it took in over its lifetime? Hint: it's less than $200. Donations don't really work.

preommr 6y ago

I read it more as they cleaned up the contribution process so that it's easier for people to participate. But if what you said does happen, then RIP. It's not going to be the same - everyone is too busy writing medium articles to sell their course on udemy to make real contributions for free. There were a lot of useful guides showing practical applications of features beyond just listing the api spec. But I guess it'll still be useful as a more approachable wiki to api standards rather than having to go to w3schools (yuck) or the horrible ui of w3c.

trynewideas 6y ago
Nevermind that work on Yari started at least a year prior to the layoffs in question. https://github.com/mdn/yari https://github.com/mdn/yari

gostsamo 6y ago

So, you want to use it for free, but whoever makes it to be paid by someone else?