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Obligatory "I don't understand why people still use Excel and just don't learn to program" comment

tshanmu 6y ago
it allows more agile delivery :P
llimos 6y ago
It's those pushing programming who need to answer why it's so much better, since the Excel approach does seem to work for large numbers of people.
linguae 6y ago
I'd venture out and guess that Excel is probably the most widely used programming environment in the world. Excel macros are a type of programming language, and there are many businesses that rely on complex Excel spreadsheets as part of their operations. The fact that these are called macros and not a programming language might be a reason why they are so heavily adopted: to avoid scaring people away from using Excel. This reminds me of an observation from Richard Stallman's speech about Emacs (https://www.gnu.org/gnu/rms-lisp.html https://www.gnu.org/gnu/rms-lisp.html), where secretaries used Emacs Lisp to extend the editor. In a personal computing world that has a sharp distinction between "user" and "programmer," Excel is one of those exceptions where the distinction between "user" and "programmer" is blurred, since you need to use macros to take advantage of Excel's power. Excel macros are the gateway to learning Visual Basic for Applications, a full-fledged embedded programming language. Then once you know VBA, then the road to learning other programming languages such as JavaScript and Python becomes easier.
avs733 6y ago
because sometimes I need to deploy things that will fail gracefully with people who don't know how to code. I can setup some complex things in excel that if some one does somethign unexpected or data does something unexpected, they can just overwrite things. Code is great but requires systems that are not always in place. I would argue a formula one race car is better than a 10 year old honda. But the honda doesn't need a support crew to get me to work, can be started in an instant, and doesn't care if I forget to change the oil for a year. context matters in choosing technical solutions. Your argument is no different than all those other ones over what programming language is 'best' Excel IS a programming language.
Terretta 6y ago
Not only is Excel a real-time programming IDE, similar to today's "notebooks", one could also consider it "functional".
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  It's a reactive functional programming IDE, that existed way before the term RFP was popular. I'm serious. It's functional, as you say, and cells form a dependency DAG which drives their auto-update, which qualifies it for the "reactive" adjective.
antihero 6y ago
The analysts I knew at my last job would use Excel to prototype huge, incredibly complex business logic and calculations, and then have programmers (or the skilled ones would do it themselves) implement this stuff in SQL or whatever language made the most sense when it came to analysing billions of rows of real data. It's an exceptionally powerful tool for prototyping.
- pyromine 6y ago
  I often do a fair amount of exploratory data analysis in Excel, and then take it to a BI tool or some other process to actually formalize it. In excel the ability to be sloppy is actually really nice to just sling together a few random models and call it good when I don't need to be precise.

it allows more agile delivery :P

It's those pushing programming who need to answer why it's so much better, since the Excel approach does seem to work for large numbers of people.

linguae 6y ago

I'd venture out and guess that Excel is probably the most widely used programming environment in the world. Excel macros are a type of programming language, and there are many businesses that rely on complex Excel spreadsheets as part of their operations. The fact that these are called macros and not a programming language might be a reason why they are so heavily adopted: to avoid scaring people away from using Excel. This reminds me of an observation from Richard Stallman's speech about Emacs (https://www.gnu.org/gnu/rms-lisp.html https://www.gnu.org/gnu/rms-lisp.html), where secretaries used Emacs Lisp to extend the editor. In a personal computing world that has a sharp distinction between "user" and "programmer," Excel is one of those exceptions where the distinction between "user" and "programmer" is blurred, since you need to use macros to take advantage of Excel's power. Excel macros are the gateway to learning Visual Basic for Applications, a full-fledged embedded programming language. Then once you know VBA, then the road to learning other programming languages such as JavaScript and Python becomes easier.

avs733 6y ago

because sometimes I need to deploy things that will fail gracefully with people who don't know how to code. I can setup some complex things in excel that if some one does somethign unexpected or data does something unexpected, they can just overwrite things. Code is great but requires systems that are not always in place. I would argue a formula one race car is better than a 10 year old honda. But the honda doesn't need a support crew to get me to work, can be started in an instant, and doesn't care if I forget to change the oil for a year. context matters in choosing technical solutions. Your argument is no different than all those other ones over what programming language is 'best' Excel IS a programming language.

Terretta 6y ago

Not only is Excel a real-time programming IDE, similar to today's "notebooks", one could also consider it "functional".

TeMPOraL 6y ago
It's a reactive functional programming IDE, that existed way before the term RFP was popular. I'm serious. It's functional, as you say, and cells form a dependency DAG which drives their auto-update, which qualifies it for the "reactive" adjective.

antihero 6y ago

The analysts I knew at my last job would use Excel to prototype huge, incredibly complex business logic and calculations, and then have programmers (or the skilled ones would do it themselves) implement this stuff in SQL or whatever language made the most sense when it came to analysing billions of rows of real data. It's an exceptionally powerful tool for prototyping.

pyromine 6y ago
I often do a fair amount of exploratory data analysis in Excel, and then take it to a BI tool or some other process to actually formalize it. In excel the ability to be sloppy is actually really nice to just sling together a few random models and call it good when I don't need to be precise.