4 ms·

This does concern me. For example, if I buy kindle books instead of physical books, my kids can't enjoy those books when I'm gone. I have a car that can now do

This does concern me. For example, if I buy kindle books instead of physical books, my kids can't enjoy those books when I'm gone. I have a car that can now do software unlocking of physical features (e.g. rear heated seats). Am I adding value to the car which I can sell to the next person, or am I licensing the right to that feature for the duration for my own use. We're moving to a model where we spend the same, but their value is zero when considering the value of our assets.

wycy 6y ago
> I have a car that can now do software unlocking of physical features (e.g. rear heated seats) Was this a permanent unlock, or do you need a subscription to unlock the rear heated seats?
- bonkabonka 6y ago
  Well and is the permanent unlock transferable? There was that fellow who bought a Tesla from a used-car dealer and had a bunch of paperwork stating certain things were unlocked that when he bought them got disabled because he wasn't licensed for them.
  - martin-adams 6y ago
    Yeah, it's pretty much this. Apparently Tesla locks the features when the car is sold to them. The guy in question had a broken paper trail but apparently it was sorted. What is worrying is that these aren't clearly explained when you make the purchase. And it's really down to the company's policy, which if all companies do the same, the consumer ends up having no choice.
  - judge2020 6y ago
    Supposedly the story is: Tesla bought a car back then sold it to an auction house and enabled FSD as a "demo". The auction house mistakenly listed the features as being enabled, and when the car sold Tesla never disabled the FSD demo. When the user then privately sold the car to a new owner, the new owner performed an ownership transfer - when they did this, either a human or some automated system saw that the FSD demo was enabled and disabled it. 0: https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-disables-autopilot-on-model-s-without-alerting-owner-2020-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-disables-autopilot-on-...
- martin-adams 6y ago
  All I know is that it's a one time payment, but it's not obvious if that's transferable to the next owner.
schwartzworld 6y ago
the part about your kids really resonates with me. a lot of my taste was formed by going through my parents old books and records.
dhab 6y ago
thanks for pointing this out. For a while i had an uneasy feeling about this, and they way you have put it gives words to those: digital assets that we create and are licensed really can't be passed on generationally. Taking it to an extreme - imagine not having physical transcripts of historic documents - e.g. the constitution - and its effect on a country's trajectory (not that constitution would stay always relevant in it's original form - but still)
Mediterraneo10 6y ago
> if I buy kindle books instead of physical books, my kids can't enjoy those books when I'm gone. Do you think your kids will want to read their ancestors’ books? I have watched even ardent bibliophiles among my friends gradually lose interest in books, because they grow accustomed to consuming snackable content on the internet, and I have little confidence that books will be a mainstream pastime for following generations.
- netsharc 6y ago
  Dude, is your question for real? Just because you hang out with those people, you think it's not necessary for books to be transferrable to kids? It's currently possible to pass on books, DVDs, MP3s to kids, and a corporate-controlled future where that's not possible without them getting a cut is a stupid future.
  - ls65536 6y ago
    I really don't think their point was that it's not necessary for books and other physical media to be transferable to kids. I saw it more as an anecdote that I think probably a lot of people would, unfortunately, nod in agreement with. To your point, however, I do agree. I think one of the major benefits of physical media (or even digital media as long as it's entirely self-hosted) is that you can enjoy it entirely without surveillance, and that it's much more resistant to censorship. Being able to read about and understand how people lived, thought, and created in the past is incredibly important, and it's something we should preserve for the benefit of future generations, even if they might sometimes contain things that one might not necessarily agree with today.
  - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
    > you think it's not necessary for books to be transferrable to kids? Where did I say that? Obviously it is nice to be able to hand things down to one's children. But what I am questioning is whether the envisioned scenario (children of the future being enamored by dad or granddad's old books) is really likely to happen.
    - 6y ago
s17n 6y ago
https://medium.com/@samclearman/stop-paying-for-e-books-and-start-stealing-them-efb293e9a64c https://medium.com/@samclearman/stop-paying-for-e-books-and-...
- Qwertious 6y ago
  To add to that, Kindle store is actually two things combined: 1. An eBook distributor 2. A "PayPal replacement" that let's you send $$$ to authors. They theoretically have a monopoly on #1, but in practice piracy exists and potentially does it better. They don't and can't stop people from setting up a platform for sending $$$ to authors - in fact, you could even have a database of authors, their books and the RRP of those books, and an embeddable button to pay the author an RRP's worth. That could then be embedded on arbitrary piracy sites. The piracy sites could be shut down, but realistically the pirate sites are too portable to be shut down for long, and private trackers make some sites impractical to shut down at all.

wycy 6y ago

> I have a car that can now do software unlocking of physical features (e.g. rear heated seats) Was this a permanent unlock, or do you need a subscription to unlock the rear heated seats?

bonkabonka 6y ago
Well and is the permanent unlock transferable? There was that fellow who bought a Tesla from a used-car dealer and had a bunch of paperwork stating certain things were unlocked that when he bought them got disabled because he wasn't licensed for them.
- martin-adams 6y ago
  Yeah, it's pretty much this. Apparently Tesla locks the features when the car is sold to them. The guy in question had a broken paper trail but apparently it was sorted. What is worrying is that these aren't clearly explained when you make the purchase. And it's really down to the company's policy, which if all companies do the same, the consumer ends up having no choice.
- judge2020 6y ago
  Supposedly the story is: Tesla bought a car back then sold it to an auction house and enabled FSD as a "demo". The auction house mistakenly listed the features as being enabled, and when the car sold Tesla never disabled the FSD demo. When the user then privately sold the car to a new owner, the new owner performed an ownership transfer - when they did this, either a human or some automated system saw that the FSD demo was enabled and disabled it. 0: https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-disables-autopilot-on-model-s-without-alerting-owner-2020-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-disables-autopilot-on-...
martin-adams 6y ago
All I know is that it's a one time payment, but it's not obvious if that's transferable to the next owner.

schwartzworld 6y ago

the part about your kids really resonates with me. a lot of my taste was formed by going through my parents old books and records.

dhab 6y ago

thanks for pointing this out. For a while i had an uneasy feeling about this, and they way you have put it gives words to those: digital assets that we create and are licensed really can't be passed on generationally. Taking it to an extreme - imagine not having physical transcripts of historic documents - e.g. the constitution - and its effect on a country's trajectory (not that constitution would stay always relevant in it's original form - but still)

Mediterraneo10 6y ago

> if I buy kindle books instead of physical books, my kids can't enjoy those books when I'm gone. Do you think your kids will want to read their ancestors’ books? I have watched even ardent bibliophiles among my friends gradually lose interest in books, because they grow accustomed to consuming snackable content on the internet, and I have little confidence that books will be a mainstream pastime for following generations.

netsharc 6y ago
Dude, is your question for real? Just because you hang out with those people, you think it's not necessary for books to be transferrable to kids? It's currently possible to pass on books, DVDs, MP3s to kids, and a corporate-controlled future where that's not possible without them getting a cut is a stupid future.
- ls65536 6y ago
  I really don't think their point was that it's not necessary for books and other physical media to be transferable to kids. I saw it more as an anecdote that I think probably a lot of people would, unfortunately, nod in agreement with. To your point, however, I do agree. I think one of the major benefits of physical media (or even digital media as long as it's entirely self-hosted) is that you can enjoy it entirely without surveillance, and that it's much more resistant to censorship. Being able to read about and understand how people lived, thought, and created in the past is incredibly important, and it's something we should preserve for the benefit of future generations, even if they might sometimes contain things that one might not necessarily agree with today.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  > you think it's not necessary for books to be transferrable to kids? Where did I say that? Obviously it is nice to be able to hand things down to one's children. But what I am questioning is whether the envisioned scenario (children of the future being enamored by dad or granddad's old books) is really likely to happen.
  - 6y ago

s17n 6y ago

https://medium.com/@samclearman/stop-paying-for-e-books-and-start-stealing-them-efb293e9a64c https://medium.com/@samclearman/stop-paying-for-e-books-and-...

Qwertious 6y ago
To add to that, Kindle store is actually two things combined: 1. An eBook distributor 2. A "PayPal replacement" that let's you send $$$ to authors. They theoretically have a monopoly on #1, but in practice piracy exists and potentially does it better. They don't and can't stop people from setting up a platform for sending $$$ to authors - in fact, you could even have a database of authors, their books and the RRP of those books, and an embeddable button to pay the author an RRP's worth. That could then be embedded on arbitrary piracy sites. The piracy sites could be shut down, but realistically the pirate sites are too portable to be shut down for long, and private trackers make some sites impractical to shut down at all.