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Wait a second. "The fake letter was part of new skills being tested by the military as it hones its expertise for launching propaganda missions at home and abr

Wait a second. "The fake letter was part of new skills being tested by the military as it hones its expertise for launching propaganda missions at home and abroad." The Canadian military is launching propaganda missions in Canada? (Or at all, for that matter)? WTF? "The Nova Scotia propaganda training comes as the Canadian Forces spools up its capabilities to conduct information warfare, influence operations and other deception missions aimed at populations overseas and, if necessary, the Canadian public." Uhhhh... like.. hey you're saying the quiet part out loud, guys.

cconcepts 6y ago
"Lets just say it moved me....TO A BIGGER HOUSE" - Krusty The Clown
loopz 6y ago
Of course, their glorious propaganda machine needs funding you see. Great propaganda doesn't write itself!
l0b0 6y ago
The military doesn't serve the public. Every person in the military serves the one above them, and the ones at the top serve the politicians as long as they keep getting money and being treated like they are the best people in existence.
- bregma 6y ago
  ... and the politicians serve the public. It's service all the way up.
numpad0 6y ago
Just to illustrate, “keep calm and carry on” is a propaganda
kortilla 6y ago
Propaganda isn’t always all bad. It can be re-assuring messages during wartime, reminder that rationing X is helping Y, or that wearing a mask is preventing the spread of a disease.
- 52-6F-62 6y ago
  Especially when we have groups trying to convince swathes of the population that public health matters are not public health matters, and that we're against each other rather than working together. Unfortunately, that is the reality facing us right now.
absolutelyrad 6y ago
> The Canadian military is launching propaganda missions in Canada? (Or at all, for that matter)? WTF? Everyone with a little bit of sense knows that democracy is a façade.
- refurb 6y ago
  Are you saying propaganda is incompatible with a democracy? So this WW2 propaganda poster from the UK encouraging men to sign up for submarine service because their women will admire them means the UK isn't a democracy? https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/2606355/powerful-ww2-propaganda-posters-from-new-book-show-how-allied-nations-were-encouraged-to-fight-in-the-war/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/2606355/powerful-ww2-propaga...
  - PrinceKropotkin 6y ago
    Out of all the possible examples in the world of democracy you choose the UK to make your point?
3pt14159 6y ago
White propaganda is fine and even necessary at times. There was plenty of it by western countries during WWII and the Cold War. It's that this propaganda contained false information on both the source and the details that is problematic. Black propaganda is wrong. We don't need it to win, and when it is exposed it undermines our credibility, which undermines our white propaganda and efforts to contrast our values with the values of our adversaries. I take a similar stand with politicians. I'd rather vote for an honest person that I disagree with on a majority of issues than a dishonest one that shares my political party. For especially honest politicians I go out of my way to vote for them. Trust in government is paramount. The rest breeds corruption and eventual democratic decline.
- hutzlibu 6y ago
  "There was plenty of it by western countries during WWII and the Cold War." There were also plenty of atrocities commited by western countries during WW2 and after. Napalm, atomic bombs on civilians, ... And George Orwell based his 1984 of his experience working for the BBC in WW2, btw. In other words, no, I don't see a valid need for propaganda in democratic societies. And the role of the military should be to simply defend the societey, not influence them in a sneaky way.
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    > There were also plenty of atrocities commited by western countries during WW2 and after. Napalm, atomic bombs on civilians, ... No, Japan and Germany started war with the western allies. Blame Japan and Germany for the atrocities.
    - speeder 6y ago
      You don't want to go down that path, because will result in endless finger-pointing. Why Japan joined WW2? Because they were playing catch up with European powers and doing what they did to Japan a some time earlier, and were trying to avoid the fate of China (see Opium wars) Why Germany and Italy were heavily involved in both WW? Because they were the only European country with no colonies, in part due to their recent unification (specially Italy in this case), and the other European countries were screwing with them. But... why? And so on, you will end with a huge chain of whys and finger pointing until you blame God for creating Adam.
rkagerer 6y ago
Briant revealed on Monday the Canadian Forces spent more than $1 million in training its public affairs officers in skills to influence targeted populations. Your personalized propaganda, brought to you by your own tax dollars. I am Canadian and find such deceit sickening.
- jariel 6y ago
  You'd rather they dropped bombs than drop leaflets? The level of naïveté here is bothersome. Truth is the first casualty of war, and it's always been that way. The Rwandan Genocide was entirely perpetuated with propaganda, and it's unwinding had to (and continues to) make to use propaganda. The Russians and Chinese are actively engaged in campaigns right now inside and outside their borders, this is not a conspiracy theory it's reported on regular news outlets. At very least it's something Western Military should have reasonable mastery of, like anything else.
  - bregma 6y ago
    Unconstrained competition inevitably turns into a spiral to the bottom. The purpose of ethics and mores is to put a constraint on competition. I guess the question becomes: is it more important to you to be right, or to win? Consider both the short-term and long-term effects of your decision.
    - esyir 6y ago
      The catch here being that if you lose, you can go to your grave knowing that you were right. You'll still be dead though.
  - rkagerer 6y ago
    I have a problem with anyone who takes my money and uses it to drop bombs and deceitful leaflets on me. I fail to see how that is naive.
BunsanSpace 6y ago
I think it was more training them how to launch it, so they can better identify it domestically. I know some guys in military intelligence in that neck of the woods, I doubt there was any malicious intent here.
- ficklepickle 6y ago
  Right, I'm sure the ones you know are "good guys". But they aren't going to refuse an order. Personally, I'd be asking them what they know about the NS shooter. Probably another one of their well-intentioned psyops gone awry.
Zenst 6y ago
I'm always reminded of the phrase - One persons propaganda, is another persons politics. Which if you look at political manifesto's by mainstream parties - does make for a very fine line depending upon how interpreted.
GoblinSlayer 6y ago
>hey you're saying the quiet part out loud In some parts of the world it's folklore already.
sleepysysadmin 6y ago
Not new that the Canadian government is using propaganda. Go look up on CBC "about-our-social-experiment" where they got caught red handed trying to push that all Canadians are white supremacists. Or how about CBC articles that are in Urdu saying Canadians are adopting and killing Indian/Pakistani children. If you try to use google translate or bing translate it will fail. Or how about the endless 'parents' articles about how it's sexual assault if you don't have consent to hug your own 5 year old child. How about 'dear white people' where the CBC clearly says that racism against white people is impossible.
- xist 6y ago
  Whoa there, settle down boomer. There's a difference between "real" propaganda vs what you're using loaded phrases to describe. You're free to be as right wing (or left) as you wish but this is hyperbole & exaggeration, and doesn't contribute anything to the discussion. Save your outrage for your local Facebook group not here.
  - sleepysysadmin 6y ago
    >Whoa there, settle down boomer. I'm a millennial. Out of curiosity why do you open with an insult? >There's a difference between "real" propaganda vs what you're using loaded phrases to describe. You're no true scotsman. > You're free to be as right wing (or left) as you wish but this is hyperbole & exaggeration, and doesn't contribute anything to the discussion. Save your outrage for your local Facebook group not here. So you insulted me. Then just disqualified my points as exaggeration without addressing anything and then said I'm not contributing to the discussion?
    - xist 6y ago
      I'm sorry, how does pointing out your perceived racism against white people relate at all to this article? The words "white people" or "racism" or "Urdu" or "Pakistan" aren't referenced at all in the article and are personal opinions. Don't take it as an insult, take it as a suggestion that you're not on topic. If you want to talk about how the world is out to get white people, that's fine for a different venue (lots of places on Facebook for instance) but let's stay on topic on Hacker News - and the article at hand.
Raphmedia 6y ago
> The Canadian military is launching propaganda missions in Canada Yes, and the Canadian military is very good at it. The fact that your reaction upon reading on it is incredulity and denial is proof enough at how good they are. Keep in mind that "propaganda" does not necessarily mean nefarious. Almost all countries use propaganda, and I'd argue that most corporations use it too.
cyberdrunk 6y ago
Propaganda is just old-school name for PR. All large organizations do PR (or propaganda).
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Propaganda is just old-school name for PR “Marketing” might be more precise, though not originally in the context of business. Specifically, Propaganda fide, from which the term “propaganda” entered general usage, was the older name for the Vatican organization that is now the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples.
mabbo 6y ago
Is there any law against the military or government running an operation like this? Shouldn't there be? I feel like if military personnel and politicians were told "If you try this kind of thing, for training purposes or otherwise, you will serve <X> years in prison" it would be a good deterrent. And I feel like such strong laws should exist.

cconcepts 6y ago

"Lets just say it moved me....TO A BIGGER HOUSE" - Krusty The Clown

loopz 6y ago

Of course, their glorious propaganda machine needs funding you see. Great propaganda doesn't write itself!

l0b0 6y ago

The military doesn't serve the public. Every person in the military serves the one above them, and the ones at the top serve the politicians as long as they keep getting money and being treated like they are the best people in existence.

bregma 6y ago
... and the politicians serve the public. It's service all the way up.

numpad0 6y ago

Just to illustrate, “keep calm and carry on” is a propaganda

kortilla 6y ago

Propaganda isn’t always all bad. It can be re-assuring messages during wartime, reminder that rationing X is helping Y, or that wearing a mask is preventing the spread of a disease.

52-6F-62 6y ago
Especially when we have groups trying to convince swathes of the population that public health matters are not public health matters, and that we're against each other rather than working together. Unfortunately, that is the reality facing us right now.

absolutelyrad 6y ago

> The Canadian military is launching propaganda missions in Canada? (Or at all, for that matter)? WTF? Everyone with a little bit of sense knows that democracy is a façade.

refurb 6y ago
Are you saying propaganda is incompatible with a democracy? So this WW2 propaganda poster from the UK encouraging men to sign up for submarine service because their women will admire them means the UK isn't a democracy? https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/2606355/powerful-ww2-propaganda-posters-from-new-book-show-how-allied-nations-were-encouraged-to-fight-in-the-war/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/2606355/powerful-ww2-propaga...
- PrinceKropotkin 6y ago
  Out of all the possible examples in the world of democracy you choose the UK to make your point?

3pt14159 6y ago

White propaganda is fine and even necessary at times. There was plenty of it by western countries during WWII and the Cold War. It's that this propaganda contained false information on both the source and the details that is problematic. Black propaganda is wrong. We don't need it to win, and when it is exposed it undermines our credibility, which undermines our white propaganda and efforts to contrast our values with the values of our adversaries. I take a similar stand with politicians. I'd rather vote for an honest person that I disagree with on a majority of issues than a dishonest one that shares my political party. For especially honest politicians I go out of my way to vote for them. Trust in government is paramount. The rest breeds corruption and eventual democratic decline.

hutzlibu 6y ago
"There was plenty of it by western countries during WWII and the Cold War." There were also plenty of atrocities commited by western countries during WW2 and after. Napalm, atomic bombs on civilians, ... And George Orwell based his 1984 of his experience working for the BBC in WW2, btw. In other words, no, I don't see a valid need for propaganda in democratic societies. And the role of the military should be to simply defend the societey, not influence them in a sneaky way.
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  > There were also plenty of atrocities commited by western countries during WW2 and after. Napalm, atomic bombs on civilians, ... No, Japan and Germany started war with the western allies. Blame Japan and Germany for the atrocities.
  - speeder 6y ago
    You don't want to go down that path, because will result in endless finger-pointing. Why Japan joined WW2? Because they were playing catch up with European powers and doing what they did to Japan a some time earlier, and were trying to avoid the fate of China (see Opium wars) Why Germany and Italy were heavily involved in both WW? Because they were the only European country with no colonies, in part due to their recent unification (specially Italy in this case), and the other European countries were screwing with them. But... why? And so on, you will end with a huge chain of whys and finger pointing until you blame God for creating Adam.

rkagerer 6y ago

Briant revealed on Monday the Canadian Forces spent more than $1 million in training its public affairs officers in skills to influence targeted populations. Your personalized propaganda, brought to you by your own tax dollars. I am Canadian and find such deceit sickening.

jariel 6y ago
You'd rather they dropped bombs than drop leaflets? The level of naïveté here is bothersome. Truth is the first casualty of war, and it's always been that way. The Rwandan Genocide was entirely perpetuated with propaganda, and it's unwinding had to (and continues to) make to use propaganda. The Russians and Chinese are actively engaged in campaigns right now inside and outside their borders, this is not a conspiracy theory it's reported on regular news outlets. At very least it's something Western Military should have reasonable mastery of, like anything else.
- bregma 6y ago
  Unconstrained competition inevitably turns into a spiral to the bottom. The purpose of ethics and mores is to put a constraint on competition. I guess the question becomes: is it more important to you to be right, or to win? Consider both the short-term and long-term effects of your decision.
  - esyir 6y ago
    The catch here being that if you lose, you can go to your grave knowing that you were right. You'll still be dead though.
- rkagerer 6y ago
  I have a problem with anyone who takes my money and uses it to drop bombs and deceitful leaflets on me. I fail to see how that is naive.

BunsanSpace 6y ago

I think it was more training them how to launch it, so they can better identify it domestically. I know some guys in military intelligence in that neck of the woods, I doubt there was any malicious intent here.

ficklepickle 6y ago
Right, I'm sure the ones you know are "good guys". But they aren't going to refuse an order. Personally, I'd be asking them what they know about the NS shooter. Probably another one of their well-intentioned psyops gone awry.

Zenst 6y ago

I'm always reminded of the phrase - One persons propaganda, is another persons politics. Which if you look at political manifesto's by mainstream parties - does make for a very fine line depending upon how interpreted.

GoblinSlayer 6y ago

>hey you're saying the quiet part out loud In some parts of the world it's folklore already.

sleepysysadmin 6y ago

Not new that the Canadian government is using propaganda. Go look up on CBC "about-our-social-experiment" where they got caught red handed trying to push that all Canadians are white supremacists. Or how about CBC articles that are in Urdu saying Canadians are adopting and killing Indian/Pakistani children. If you try to use google translate or bing translate it will fail. Or how about the endless 'parents' articles about how it's sexual assault if you don't have consent to hug your own 5 year old child. How about 'dear white people' where the CBC clearly says that racism against white people is impossible.

xist 6y ago
Whoa there, settle down boomer. There's a difference between "real" propaganda vs what you're using loaded phrases to describe. You're free to be as right wing (or left) as you wish but this is hyperbole & exaggeration, and doesn't contribute anything to the discussion. Save your outrage for your local Facebook group not here.
- sleepysysadmin 6y ago
  >Whoa there, settle down boomer. I'm a millennial. Out of curiosity why do you open with an insult? >There's a difference between "real" propaganda vs what you're using loaded phrases to describe. You're no true scotsman. > You're free to be as right wing (or left) as you wish but this is hyperbole & exaggeration, and doesn't contribute anything to the discussion. Save your outrage for your local Facebook group not here. So you insulted me. Then just disqualified my points as exaggeration without addressing anything and then said I'm not contributing to the discussion?
  - xist 6y ago
    I'm sorry, how does pointing out your perceived racism against white people relate at all to this article? The words "white people" or "racism" or "Urdu" or "Pakistan" aren't referenced at all in the article and are personal opinions. Don't take it as an insult, take it as a suggestion that you're not on topic. If you want to talk about how the world is out to get white people, that's fine for a different venue (lots of places on Facebook for instance) but let's stay on topic on Hacker News - and the article at hand.

Raphmedia 6y ago

> The Canadian military is launching propaganda missions in Canada Yes, and the Canadian military is very good at it. The fact that your reaction upon reading on it is incredulity and denial is proof enough at how good they are. Keep in mind that "propaganda" does not necessarily mean nefarious. Almost all countries use propaganda, and I'd argue that most corporations use it too.

cyberdrunk 6y ago

Propaganda is just old-school name for PR. All large organizations do PR (or propaganda).

dragonwriter 6y ago
> Propaganda is just old-school name for PR “Marketing” might be more precise, though not originally in the context of business. Specifically, Propaganda fide, from which the term “propaganda” entered general usage, was the older name for the Vatican organization that is now the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples.

mabbo 6y ago

Is there any law against the military or government running an operation like this? Shouldn't there be? I feel like if military personnel and politicians were told "If you try this kind of thing, for training purposes or otherwise, you will serve <X> years in prison" it would be a good deterrent. And I feel like such strong laws should exist.