3 ms·

I agree with you in principal but I hear the same stories "if everyone would just wear a mask for 2 weeks we'd be done with this". But I'm not sure it's that s

by lsllc 6y ago

I agree with you in principal but I hear the same stories "if everyone would just wear a mask for 2 weeks we'd be done with this". But I'm not sure it's that simple. In Massachusetts, we've been wearing masks, consistently since May 6th (as per governor's order). Our case numbers over the summer had been "ok", but not great (despite being 3rd in the world per capital bad in April). We've never been anywhere near close to "zero" as Melbourne is now seeing after their lockdown and I think we've only had maybe 1 day with 0 deaths since March. Now we're back over 1K new cases per day, 3x what it was 2 weeks ago and it looks like it'll keep going up. Our lockdown in March-June was actually pretty complete, it wasn't troops-on-the-street / roadblocks, but almost everything was closed and the reality was there was literally no-where to go and absolutely nothing to do. People just stayed home. We may never had an official curfew here, but again the reality is there's no one out and about after 9pm anyway (even now). Today, we still have universal masking in public, significant restrictions on office occupancy, indoor dining, gyms etc., most schools are either hybrid or remote. We lead the country in testing capacity and we currently have 2000 contact tracers in MA according to MA-DHHS Sec. Sudders. We also have some of the very best health care in the world and in general a well educated populace. So how did it go so wrong in MA and so right for Melbourne? (good on you guys in Victoria btw, well done!). Asking for ... a "friend".

klmadfejno 6y ago
I don't think I agree with this. I also live in MA, and I think, in general, the state has done a pretty good job. But we all live within our own bubbles. 5 years in Boston and I never heard a "boston" accent outside of Fenway Park. Does my experience represent, at all, the whole of MA? Probably not. And with open borders to neighboring states (with weakish quarantine rules) I'm not surprised it's been unable to contain this thing. At a glance, Plymouth is doing poorly. Probably driven by beachgoers and travelers. Shrug. This is hard.
- lsllc 6y ago
  As I'm sure you know, there's a been a travel order here in MA for a number of months now with $500/day fines for not quarantining. Not sure how well it has been enforced ... it excludes certain other states (e.g. most of New England) and states where their rates are low enough. MA actually just got put on the CT & NY "must quarantine" lists because of our now-higher rates (not not vice-versa, in fact Baker just today called NY/CT out on it but they didn't give in any on it). I'm sure though that probably travelers through the airports might be problematic ... then again, air traffic is down very very significantly (source: live under a Logan approach and it's been absolutely quiet since late March). I don't really know how else MA would enforce cross border quarantine short of police checkpoints at every crossing which would be both expensive and likely unconstitutional. As for Plymouth ... it's kinda cold now, I'd have expected that back in the summer, but not so much now (although the Plimoth Plantation is in fact open which I'm a bit surprised at!).
9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
Spain has been wearing masks for months now with an excellent numbers, the only people without are very young kids and it gets just worse and worse. If masks do anything then it's very little - what a lot of the European countries agree with but mask is the last resort we're doing and enforcing type of populist measure by politicians.
harambae 6y ago
I live in MA (Boston suburb) and have for a decade. I don't have all the answers but a few things to note on this topic.. 1. The lockdown was probably not actually harsh enough. I got a waiver from it, as did almost everyone I worked with, to continue coming into work. The paper said we were "critical to national infrastructure" but we work in long-term research which could easily be pushed back by weeks without anyone knowing or caring. I don't know how typical this was or how many people were excluded. 2. You could always travel to and from other states pretty freely via car. The only serious attempt I ever saw against this was at the New York Connecticut border they were checking for certain license plates (Florida maybe? they didn't care about my MA plates) one time. Even then, you could apparently get off the highway and avoid this because a friend of mine did. 3. Mask rules were/are looser in NH where everyone goes on weekends if traffic is any indication. 4. In recent months I saw a lot of people mushed together dining outside in the Italian district. We can debate how much this matters since it's outdoors but I don't think they were doing that in Australia. Separation looks more serious based on articles I've seen: https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/melbourne-unveils-16-covid-safe-outdoor-dining-precincts-20201001-p560z2.html https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/melbourne-unveil... I don't have a lot of hard stats to put in here, but it wasn't Australia in MA and degree of enforcement certainly makes a difference if you're going to have rules.

by lsllc 6y ago

klmadfejno 6y ago

I don't think I agree with this. I also live in MA, and I think, in general, the state has done a pretty good job. But we all live within our own bubbles. 5 years in Boston and I never heard a "boston" accent outside of Fenway Park. Does my experience represent, at all, the whole of MA? Probably not. And with open borders to neighboring states (with weakish quarantine rules) I'm not surprised it's been unable to contain this thing. At a glance, Plymouth is doing poorly. Probably driven by beachgoers and travelers. Shrug. This is hard.

lsllc 6y ago
As I'm sure you know, there's a been a travel order here in MA for a number of months now with $500/day fines for not quarantining. Not sure how well it has been enforced ... it excludes certain other states (e.g. most of New England) and states where their rates are low enough. MA actually just got put on the CT & NY "must quarantine" lists because of our now-higher rates (not not vice-versa, in fact Baker just today called NY/CT out on it but they didn't give in any on it). I'm sure though that probably travelers through the airports might be problematic ... then again, air traffic is down very very significantly (source: live under a Logan approach and it's been absolutely quiet since late March). I don't really know how else MA would enforce cross border quarantine short of police checkpoints at every crossing which would be both expensive and likely unconstitutional. As for Plymouth ... it's kinda cold now, I'd have expected that back in the summer, but not so much now (although the Plimoth Plantation is in fact open which I'm a bit surprised at!).

9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago

Spain has been wearing masks for months now with an excellent numbers, the only people without are very young kids and it gets just worse and worse. If masks do anything then it's very little - what a lot of the European countries agree with but mask is the last resort we're doing and enforcing type of populist measure by politicians.

harambae 6y ago

I live in MA (Boston suburb) and have for a decade. I don't have all the answers but a few things to note on this topic.. 1. The lockdown was probably not actually harsh enough. I got a waiver from it, as did almost everyone I worked with, to continue coming into work. The paper said we were "critical to national infrastructure" but we work in long-term research which could easily be pushed back by weeks without anyone knowing or caring. I don't know how typical this was or how many people were excluded. 2. You could always travel to and from other states pretty freely via car. The only serious attempt I ever saw against this was at the New York Connecticut border they were checking for certain license plates (Florida maybe? they didn't care about my MA plates) one time. Even then, you could apparently get off the highway and avoid this because a friend of mine did. 3. Mask rules were/are looser in NH where everyone goes on weekends if traffic is any indication. 4. In recent months I saw a lot of people mushed together dining outside in the Italian district. We can debate how much this matters since it's outdoors but I don't think they were doing that in Australia. Separation looks more serious based on articles I've seen: https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/melbourne-unveils-16-covid-safe-outdoor-dining-precincts-20201001-p560z2.html https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/melbourne-unveil... I don't have a lot of hard stats to put in here, but it wasn't Australia in MA and degree of enforcement certainly makes a difference if you're going to have rules.