7 ms·

Spotify Is Defending Alex Jones' Appearance on “The Joe Rogan Experience”

33 points by abduhl 6y ago

Barrin92 6y ago
Decided to not renew my Spotify subscription. I know it doesn't matter but I think this is despicable. Facilitating someone who calls kids who were the victim of a mass shooting crisis actors and rants about the 'Jewish Mafia' and accuses Bill Gates of making people sick with vaccines during a pandemic, this isn't 'diversity of opinion'. It's just greed for clicks.
- throwawayay02 6y ago
  Aren't there mass murderers who give interviews and rapists who receive paychecks from true crime documentaries, and all manner of violent and crazy people being invited to radio talk shows, and still of course a great part of modern music being about raping, illegal drugs and murder. Why would you expect Spotify to be this child-safe website?
  - Barrin92 6y ago
    I haven't seen a true crime show yet that gives murderers a platform to advocate for murder, that's not the context those shows operate in, the same goes for art. But the families of the Sandy Hook children faced harassment after Jones spewed his crap, and his talk against vaccines and masks on Rogan, who has 190 million downloads per month, is going to make misinformation worse, make public health worse, and cost lives. This is not a joke or some bad rap lyrics. These conspiracies threaten people's safety from the virus and from him riling up extremists. I'm not paying a company that enables this.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - e9 6y ago
      Where do you draw the line? What about music that encourages misogyny, prostitution and violence? Should this also be banned from Spotify? Or is that ok? Who decides?
      - Barrin92 6y ago
        I draw the line with Spotify's own content policy (https://newsroom.spotify.com/2018-05-10/spotify-announces-new-hate-content-and-hateful-conduct-public-policy/ https://newsroom.spotify.com/2018-05-10/spotify-announces-ne...) that states: "However, we do not tolerate hate content on Spotify – content that expressly and principally promotes, advocates, or incites hatred or violence against a group or individual based on characteristics, including, race, religion, gender identity, sex, ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation, veteran status, or disability." Given that Jones own InfoWars podcast is already banned on the platform, I think where the line is, is pretty clear.
        Google234 6y ago
        Wouldn’t a large percentage of rap songs, e.g. eninem fail this test. You can find some very hateful lyrics
        ttt0 6y ago
        A person is not content. Alex Jones is not InfoWars podcast. I haven't listened to the podcast in question, because why would I, but if you think that it does violate these rules, you should prove it.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - gwilikers 6y ago
    I think the framing is different. I hope folks aren't listening to true crime podcasts thinking "this murderer's making some good points".
- nailer 6y ago
  "Bill Gates making people sick" came from CBS News. Here's the clip: https://www.instagram.com/tv/CG54ZTvAdQC/?igshid=jh0r3qewcihv https://www.instagram.com/tv/CG54ZTvAdQC/?igshid=jh0r3qewcih...
- Jimmc414 6y ago
  Do you believe Alex Jones is still entitled to First Amendment rights?
  - TehCorwiz 6y ago
    Spotify isn’t the government. Freedom of speech doesn’t mean that anyone has to amplify that speech and broadcast it. EDIT: Replying to child comments: The First Amendment only applies to the government; full stop. If a bakery can refuse service to a gay couple, and a restaurant can remove you for not following dress code, any private business can refuse you service. Period. You have freedom of speech and they have freedom of association. Those are both First Amendment rights. The right to refuse business is right there next to the right to spout off at the mouth.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - ttt0 6y ago
      Does that standard also apply to services like, for example, GitHub? Do you think that we shouldn't ever question if Microsoft would start kicking off open source projects for arbitrary reasons?
      - TehCorwiz 6y ago
        Is Github owned and operated by a state or federal government agency? No? Then yes it probably applies. No person or business has to serve you, or buy from you, or employ you, or let you share their platform. It's their resources and therefor their choice to do so. If it were otherwise people might have recourse when Google shuts them out unilaterally, or when Paypal closes account for vague ToS violations. Those freedoms enabled the best and worst behavior and let people make of it as they will. Laws usually concern themselves with the ways people abuse others: fraud, various kinds of violence, theft, breach of contract, etc. Regulations exist for industries where the risk of damage to many people exists: chemical waste disposal, lending laws, food labeling laws. If the industry needs regulation then that's what we should push for. My interpretation has always been that the constitution establishes what basic expectations of freedoms and restrictions we should have, and laws set the boundaries on where my freedom ends and yours begins.
- nailer 6y ago
  You would have liked the interview. Most of it was Rogan stopping Alex and getting Jamie to fact check things before Jones could move into the next topic.
- hunta2097 6y ago
  I don't even live in North America and even i've cancelled my long-standing Spotify family subscription over this. I came to Spotify for the music, not right-wing podcasts. Spotify should have kept to music.
coffexx 6y ago
Whatever you want to say about the guy he's definitely not boring to listen to, and I enjoy listening to him and his antics whenever he's on with Joe. He's entertaining, and has a good sense of humor. If someone was to deprive me of the opportunity to listen to him, I'd be ticked off, and I don't agree with the guy (at least when I can understand what he's saying hahaha). I can only imagine how people that do agree with his more unconventional views view those doing the deplatforming, but they're definitely not helping them by doing it. You're just insulating them from opposing views and making them angry at you. It feels to me like its vindictive, coming from a place of genuine hate. Thats not good no matter what the stated intentions are.
prudhvis 6y ago
I really appreciate Spotify for treating me as an adult and letting me make the decision. If it's a bad idea i want to hear it so i can be better prepared to counter it.
- bsder 6y ago
  The problem, as we are seeing, is that lots of people cannot distinguish between fact and fiction let alone propaganda. There is a non-trivial cohort of people who think "It's on <Joe Rogan, Fox News, etc.>, so it can't be completely wrong." Actually, yes it can. It can be on CNN and be completely wrong--the probabilities are lower because people get fired over that, but it still can be wrong. And this is before we even get into the whole "There are equally valid sides to an argument" problem in the media. No, no there aren't always two valid sides, and sometimes there's a dozen valid sides. I'm not sure how we should deal with this.
  - Lammy 6y ago
    I dealt with it by realizing that my own perception of the concepts of true and false can only be based on the consensus of other people I’m able to communicate with, and now that I can instantly reach billions of people I see it more like any side of any issue is “true” in the sense that “those ideas have been instantiated into our world and are something I have to deal with”. I don’t see any other solution, since how do you fight an idea? My country has been in wars against ideas for the entirety of my adult life and I’ve never seen them succeed.
  - thu2111 6y ago
    The probabilities really aren't lower. CNN has fired a vanishingly low number of people over incorrect stories and in the rare cases that did occur, they were immediately hired by other outlets with identical viewpoints to CNN, where they continued writing exactly the same kinds of stories that got them fired previously (see Thomas Frank for an example).
  - Chris2048 6y ago
    The problem is there are more "reputable" sources that are also often wrong, and are just as harmful, if not more, for the same reason: wikipedia, Politifact, The John Oliver show.
StringyBob 6y ago
I’ve been a Spotify premium member for over a decade. I love their service for listening to and discovering music. I don’t want to be contributing to over-inflated ‘exclusive’ podcaster salaries that I never listen to. In previous feedback to Spotify I’ve asked for a ‘hide podcasts’ option in the iPhone app. It’s unwanted clutter I don’t use. Time to redirect the money I pay to the artists I listen to. What systems would others recommend?
- Google234 6y ago
  I think this is a fair request. Maybe not a deal breaker for me though. It’s a little more expensive but you can just directly support the content you most enjoy. I’m not sure how convenient this is in the end though.
- wpdev_63 6y ago
  I also wanted to use a music service that supports the artists more and found that Napster[0](not the old P2P client) pays out the most royalties to artists. It works pretty well but obviously isn't as popular as spotify and doesn't have as many playlists but the music selection is similar. I use soundiiz[1] to bring my playlists over and it has been more or less seemless. [0]:https://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2019/oct/31/best-streaming-service-mp3-pays-artists https://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2019/oct/31/b... [1]:soundiiz.com
- qqj 6y ago
  You’re the same type of person who wants to dictate where and how his taxes are used (“I’d like a 70%-30% split on health and education. What’s that? Defense? Yeah I don’t like tanks, no thanks. Oh but do make sure it goes to building MRI machines - I do like those very much, the hum is soothing to me”). While the sheer arrogance and borderline solipsism do bring a smile to ones face, they are completely impractical.
Jimmc414 6y ago
The irony of the first amendment getting down votes in this thread is poetically tragic. It's almost as if writers like Aldous Huxley and George Orwell had the models down so well that prediction was easy.
- amanaplanacanal 6y ago
  I don’t see anybody downvoting the first amendment. What are you talking about?
diogenescynic 6y ago
Joe Rogan has a ton of right wing propaganda. Too much for it to be a coincidence. I’m also over the enlightened Everyman shtick, he peddles bullshit half the time. He was vehemently anti-mask. He’s dumb.

33 points by abduhl 6y ago

Decided to not renew my Spotify subscription. I know it doesn't matter but I think this is despicable. Facilitating someone who calls kids who were the victim of a mass shooting crisis actors and rants about the 'Jewish Mafia' and accuses Bill Gates of making people sick with vaccines during a pandemic, this isn't 'diversity of opinion'. It's just greed for clicks.

throwawayay02 6y ago
Aren't there mass murderers who give interviews and rapists who receive paychecks from true crime documentaries, and all manner of violent and crazy people being invited to radio talk shows, and still of course a great part of modern music being about raping, illegal drugs and murder. Why would you expect Spotify to be this child-safe website?
- Barrin92 6y ago
  I haven't seen a true crime show yet that gives murderers a platform to advocate for murder, that's not the context those shows operate in, the same goes for art. But the families of the Sandy Hook children faced harassment after Jones spewed his crap, and his talk against vaccines and masks on Rogan, who has 190 million downloads per month, is going to make misinformation worse, make public health worse, and cost lives. This is not a joke or some bad rap lyrics. These conspiracies threaten people's safety from the virus and from him riling up extremists. I'm not paying a company that enables this.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - e9 6y ago
    Where do you draw the line? What about music that encourages misogyny, prostitution and violence? Should this also be banned from Spotify? Or is that ok? Who decides?
    - Barrin92 6y ago
      I draw the line with Spotify's own content policy (https://newsroom.spotify.com/2018-05-10/spotify-announces-new-hate-content-and-hateful-conduct-public-policy/ https://newsroom.spotify.com/2018-05-10/spotify-announces-ne...) that states: "However, we do not tolerate hate content on Spotify – content that expressly and principally promotes, advocates, or incites hatred or violence against a group or individual based on characteristics, including, race, religion, gender identity, sex, ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation, veteran status, or disability." Given that Jones own InfoWars podcast is already banned on the platform, I think where the line is, is pretty clear.
      - Google234 6y ago
        Wouldn’t a large percentage of rap songs, e.g. eninem fail this test. You can find some very hateful lyrics
      - ttt0 6y ago
        A person is not content. Alex Jones is not InfoWars podcast. I haven't listened to the podcast in question, because why would I, but if you think that it does violate these rules, you should prove it.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
- gwilikers 6y ago
  I think the framing is different. I hope folks aren't listening to true crime podcasts thinking "this murderer's making some good points".
nailer 6y ago
"Bill Gates making people sick" came from CBS News. Here's the clip: https://www.instagram.com/tv/CG54ZTvAdQC/?igshid=jh0r3qewcihv https://www.instagram.com/tv/CG54ZTvAdQC/?igshid=jh0r3qewcih...
Jimmc414 6y ago
Do you believe Alex Jones is still entitled to First Amendment rights?
- TehCorwiz 6y ago
  Spotify isn’t the government. Freedom of speech doesn’t mean that anyone has to amplify that speech and broadcast it. EDIT: Replying to child comments: The First Amendment only applies to the government; full stop. If a bakery can refuse service to a gay couple, and a restaurant can remove you for not following dress code, any private business can refuse you service. Period. You have freedom of speech and they have freedom of association. Those are both First Amendment rights. The right to refuse business is right there next to the right to spout off at the mouth.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - ttt0 6y ago
    Does that standard also apply to services like, for example, GitHub? Do you think that we shouldn't ever question if Microsoft would start kicking off open source projects for arbitrary reasons?
    - TehCorwiz 6y ago
      Is Github owned and operated by a state or federal government agency? No? Then yes it probably applies. No person or business has to serve you, or buy from you, or employ you, or let you share their platform. It's their resources and therefor their choice to do so. If it were otherwise people might have recourse when Google shuts them out unilaterally, or when Paypal closes account for vague ToS violations. Those freedoms enabled the best and worst behavior and let people make of it as they will. Laws usually concern themselves with the ways people abuse others: fraud, various kinds of violence, theft, breach of contract, etc. Regulations exist for industries where the risk of damage to many people exists: chemical waste disposal, lending laws, food labeling laws. If the industry needs regulation then that's what we should push for. My interpretation has always been that the constitution establishes what basic expectations of freedoms and restrictions we should have, and laws set the boundaries on where my freedom ends and yours begins.
nailer 6y ago
You would have liked the interview. Most of it was Rogan stopping Alex and getting Jamie to fact check things before Jones could move into the next topic.
hunta2097 6y ago
I don't even live in North America and even i've cancelled my long-standing Spotify family subscription over this. I came to Spotify for the music, not right-wing podcasts. Spotify should have kept to music.

coffexx 6y ago

Whatever you want to say about the guy he's definitely not boring to listen to, and I enjoy listening to him and his antics whenever he's on with Joe. He's entertaining, and has a good sense of humor. If someone was to deprive me of the opportunity to listen to him, I'd be ticked off, and I don't agree with the guy (at least when I can understand what he's saying hahaha). I can only imagine how people that do agree with his more unconventional views view those doing the deplatforming, but they're definitely not helping them by doing it. You're just insulating them from opposing views and making them angry at you. It feels to me like its vindictive, coming from a place of genuine hate. Thats not good no matter what the stated intentions are.

prudhvis 6y ago

I really appreciate Spotify for treating me as an adult and letting me make the decision. If it's a bad idea i want to hear it so i can be better prepared to counter it.

bsder 6y ago
The problem, as we are seeing, is that lots of people cannot distinguish between fact and fiction let alone propaganda. There is a non-trivial cohort of people who think "It's on <Joe Rogan, Fox News, etc.>, so it can't be completely wrong." Actually, yes it can. It can be on CNN and be completely wrong--the probabilities are lower because people get fired over that, but it still can be wrong. And this is before we even get into the whole "There are equally valid sides to an argument" problem in the media. No, no there aren't always two valid sides, and sometimes there's a dozen valid sides. I'm not sure how we should deal with this.
- Lammy 6y ago
  I dealt with it by realizing that my own perception of the concepts of true and false can only be based on the consensus of other people I’m able to communicate with, and now that I can instantly reach billions of people I see it more like any side of any issue is “true” in the sense that “those ideas have been instantiated into our world and are something I have to deal with”. I don’t see any other solution, since how do you fight an idea? My country has been in wars against ideas for the entirety of my adult life and I’ve never seen them succeed.
- thu2111 6y ago
  The probabilities really aren't lower. CNN has fired a vanishingly low number of people over incorrect stories and in the rare cases that did occur, they were immediately hired by other outlets with identical viewpoints to CNN, where they continued writing exactly the same kinds of stories that got them fired previously (see Thomas Frank for an example).
- Chris2048 6y ago
  The problem is there are more "reputable" sources that are also often wrong, and are just as harmful, if not more, for the same reason: wikipedia, Politifact, The John Oliver show.

StringyBob 6y ago

I’ve been a Spotify premium member for over a decade. I love their service for listening to and discovering music. I don’t want to be contributing to over-inflated ‘exclusive’ podcaster salaries that I never listen to. In previous feedback to Spotify I’ve asked for a ‘hide podcasts’ option in the iPhone app. It’s unwanted clutter I don’t use. Time to redirect the money I pay to the artists I listen to. What systems would others recommend?

Google234 6y ago
I think this is a fair request. Maybe not a deal breaker for me though. It’s a little more expensive but you can just directly support the content you most enjoy. I’m not sure how convenient this is in the end though.
wpdev_63 6y ago
I also wanted to use a music service that supports the artists more and found that Napster[0](not the old P2P client) pays out the most royalties to artists. It works pretty well but obviously isn't as popular as spotify and doesn't have as many playlists but the music selection is similar. I use soundiiz[1] to bring my playlists over and it has been more or less seemless. [0]:https://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2019/oct/31/best-streaming-service-mp3-pays-artists https://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2019/oct/31/b... [1]:soundiiz.com
qqj 6y ago
You’re the same type of person who wants to dictate where and how his taxes are used (“I’d like a 70%-30% split on health and education. What’s that? Defense? Yeah I don’t like tanks, no thanks. Oh but do make sure it goes to building MRI machines - I do like those very much, the hum is soothing to me”). While the sheer arrogance and borderline solipsism do bring a smile to ones face, they are completely impractical.

Jimmc414 6y ago

The irony of the first amendment getting down votes in this thread is poetically tragic. It's almost as if writers like Aldous Huxley and George Orwell had the models down so well that prediction was easy.

amanaplanacanal 6y ago
I don’t see anybody downvoting the first amendment. What are you talking about?

diogenescynic 6y ago

Joe Rogan has a ton of right wing propaganda. Too much for it to be a coincidence. I’m also over the enlightened Everyman shtick, he peddles bullshit half the time. He was vehemently anti-mask. He’s dumb.