5 ms·

Coronovirus: France to go into national lockdown for whole of November

flufluflu 6y ago
Covid mean death age in France is 81 years[1]. Average death age in France is 82 years[2]. Basically, we are destroying our economy for people who would, on average, die of something equivalent in the year (be it flu, infection or cancer). Meanwhile, there are 1 million more poors in France since the beginning of the year and the deficit is soaring at > 20% GDP. But yeah, that was worth it, right ? [1]: https://www.lci.fr/sante/coronavirus-sante-publique-france-epidemie-l-age-moyen-des-victimes-du-covid-19-est-il-de-81-ans-2163463.html https://www.lci.fr/sante/coronavirus-sante-publique-france-e... [2]: https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_pays_par_espérance_de_vie https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_pays_par_espérance...
littlestymaar 6y ago
Precisions: it's a national lockdown, but school (all age) will stay opened, work from home is still optional (my wife's manager just sent an email explaining it was still forbidden at her company unless you are a “contact case” of someone having been tested) and most business will still be opened.
- flufluflu 6y ago
  How traditional businesses will survive and pay their employees if no one is allowed to go out and buy their goods ?
- touisteur 6y ago
  Yeah, same here from work "we're already doing everything right don't change nothing"... Errr
slaw 6y ago
Sweden and Belarus handled pandemic by not doing lockdowns. In Sweden for the last 3 months only 0-3 people a day die with covid-19. There is no second wave of deaths like in other European countries. https://covid19.who.int/region/euro/country/se https://covid19.who.int/region/euro/country/se https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Sweden
- Reventlov 6y ago
  And when you look at death per 1 Million population, Sweden is at 585 and France at 539, so France is doing better than Sweden… So, yeah, you can talk in absolute numbers (0-3 people a day), but sometimes it's also good to look at the percentages.
  - shadowprofile77 6y ago
    And when you consider the probable sheer social consequences of those severe lockdowns in France, that number is absurdly little to brag about. I mean, really? 585 vs. 539? One country that maintained a policy of normalizing extreme emergency authoritarianism and extreme social isolation (with all its likely consequences to health issues both mental and physical) is only very marginally "better" than another that at least showed a willingness not to treat its citizens like cattle, and you consider this worthy of hailing for a comparison? There are also a number of countries which have done worse than Sweden despite extreme lockdown measures, so either way, it's far too early to jump to rigid conclusions on what was justifiable for which prices.
    - pedrocr 6y ago
      There are not that many countries that are worse than Sweden in the pandemic numbers. And Sweden's neighbors have all done much better. Economically everyone in the EU is similar. There's still quite a bit to study but this fixation in painting Sweden as a success case is amazing. It shows up in these threads without fail.
      - sesuximo 6y ago
        Seems like it’s about the same as other large countries? But a bit of a weird situation since no lockdown != citizens out and about having a party. People can choose to lock themselves down Belgium 96.36 Spain 75.2 United Kingdom 68.07 Italy 62.46 Sweden 57.85 France 53.04 Netherlands 41.27 Ireland 38.54 Romania 33.86 Luxembourg 23.95 Czechia 23.92 Portugal 23.07 Bulgaria 16.59 Copies from https://www.statista.com/statistics/1111779/coronavirus-death-rate-europe-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1111779/coronavirus-deat... excuse the bad formatting
commonturtle 6y ago
Lockdowns vary so widely across countries that to use the term lockdown as a standard term is misleading. E.g.: The UK had a national lockdown in April-May, but people were allowed to go into work if they couldn't WFH, but in many other countries, everyone had to stay at home no matter what.
lefrenchy 6y ago
A lot of people are going to be upset about this, but realistically what is the alternative if you can't get the broader populace to adhere to strict social distancing, mask wearing, and sanitizing? Seems to me if everyone took these measures seriously and genuinely made an effort to adhere to them we would be able to avoid this as the end game of outbreaks. Other countries have curtailed massive outbreaks like this, it's possible to not end up in this situation.
- just-juan-post 6y ago
  I want to share some wisdom from the sages: > We’ve all heard it. A lockdown fanatic rationalizes the never-ending lockdowns and the shifting goalposts by blaming people who supposedly have not been complying. “This would have been over months ago if everyone just did what they were supposed to. Whether intentional or not, this is gaslighting. > Not only is this not true, but the exact OPPOSITE is true. Do these people not understand that “flatten the curve”, “slow the spread”, and “wait until a vaccine” all by definition mean stretching this out? Lockdowns do not eradicate viruses, they only delay the inevitable. As soon as the lockdown ends the virus spreads. > If our goal was speed, then this whole pandemic could have been over in a few weeks if we just let it spread through the population, while shielding the elderly and vulnerable of course. The entire point of “flattening the curve” was to drag this out. Slowing the spread and waiting for a vaccine all prolong and delay. > Anyone who thinks lockdowns could have eradicated the virus from every corner of the planet is either lying, ignorant, or insane. Even countries that were praised for keeping out the virus are now suffering new outbreaks. https://redd.it/jfmby8 https://redd.it/jfmby8
  - ericb 6y ago
    > Even countries that were praised for keeping out the virus are now suffering new outbreaks. New Zealand? South Korea? There's no comparison to the US.
  - lefrenchy 6y ago
    I never said lockdowns would eradicate the pandemic, nor do I solely blame the populace. I actually think governments are the problem and we should have way more incisive responses, both economical and social, from our governments. My entire point is that with the extremely large case numbers in Europe and the US (and to some degree the lack of adherence to guidelines) there isn’t, in my view, an obvious alternative to lockdowns as a means to slow the spread and reduce harm.
bandana 6y ago
I think that issue would have deserved a national debate and a referendum. Debating the pros and cons on TV and radio and letting the population decide for once - how many people did or didn't want a lockdown ?

Covid mean death age in France is 81 years[1]. Average death age in France is 82 years[2]. Basically, we are destroying our economy for people who would, on average, die of something equivalent in the year (be it flu, infection or cancer). Meanwhile, there are 1 million more poors in France since the beginning of the year and the deficit is soaring at > 20% GDP. But yeah, that was worth it, right ? [1]: https://www.lci.fr/sante/coronavirus-sante-publique-france-epidemie-l-age-moyen-des-victimes-du-covid-19-est-il-de-81-ans-2163463.html https://www.lci.fr/sante/coronavirus-sante-publique-france-e... [2]: https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_pays_par_espérance_de_vie https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_pays_par_espérance...

littlestymaar 6y ago

Precisions: it's a national lockdown, but school (all age) will stay opened, work from home is still optional (my wife's manager just sent an email explaining it was still forbidden at her company unless you are a “contact case” of someone having been tested) and most business will still be opened.

flufluflu 6y ago
How traditional businesses will survive and pay their employees if no one is allowed to go out and buy their goods ?
touisteur 6y ago
Yeah, same here from work "we're already doing everything right don't change nothing"... Errr

slaw 6y ago

Sweden and Belarus handled pandemic by not doing lockdowns. In Sweden for the last 3 months only 0-3 people a day die with covid-19. There is no second wave of deaths like in other European countries. https://covid19.who.int/region/euro/country/se https://covid19.who.int/region/euro/country/se https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Sweden

Reventlov 6y ago
And when you look at death per 1 Million population, Sweden is at 585 and France at 539, so France is doing better than Sweden… So, yeah, you can talk in absolute numbers (0-3 people a day), but sometimes it's also good to look at the percentages.
- shadowprofile77 6y ago
  And when you consider the probable sheer social consequences of those severe lockdowns in France, that number is absurdly little to brag about. I mean, really? 585 vs. 539? One country that maintained a policy of normalizing extreme emergency authoritarianism and extreme social isolation (with all its likely consequences to health issues both mental and physical) is only very marginally "better" than another that at least showed a willingness not to treat its citizens like cattle, and you consider this worthy of hailing for a comparison? There are also a number of countries which have done worse than Sweden despite extreme lockdown measures, so either way, it's far too early to jump to rigid conclusions on what was justifiable for which prices.
  - pedrocr 6y ago
    There are not that many countries that are worse than Sweden in the pandemic numbers. And Sweden's neighbors have all done much better. Economically everyone in the EU is similar. There's still quite a bit to study but this fixation in painting Sweden as a success case is amazing. It shows up in these threads without fail.
    - sesuximo 6y ago
      Seems like it’s about the same as other large countries? But a bit of a weird situation since no lockdown != citizens out and about having a party. People can choose to lock themselves down Belgium 96.36 Spain 75.2 United Kingdom 68.07 Italy 62.46 Sweden 57.85 France 53.04 Netherlands 41.27 Ireland 38.54 Romania 33.86 Luxembourg 23.95 Czechia 23.92 Portugal 23.07 Bulgaria 16.59 Copies from https://www.statista.com/statistics/1111779/coronavirus-death-rate-europe-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1111779/coronavirus-deat... excuse the bad formatting

commonturtle 6y ago

Lockdowns vary so widely across countries that to use the term lockdown as a standard term is misleading. E.g.: The UK had a national lockdown in April-May, but people were allowed to go into work if they couldn't WFH, but in many other countries, everyone had to stay at home no matter what.

lefrenchy 6y ago

A lot of people are going to be upset about this, but realistically what is the alternative if you can't get the broader populace to adhere to strict social distancing, mask wearing, and sanitizing? Seems to me if everyone took these measures seriously and genuinely made an effort to adhere to them we would be able to avoid this as the end game of outbreaks. Other countries have curtailed massive outbreaks like this, it's possible to not end up in this situation.

just-juan-post 6y ago
I want to share some wisdom from the sages: > We’ve all heard it. A lockdown fanatic rationalizes the never-ending lockdowns and the shifting goalposts by blaming people who supposedly have not been complying. “This would have been over months ago if everyone just did what they were supposed to. Whether intentional or not, this is gaslighting. > Not only is this not true, but the exact OPPOSITE is true. Do these people not understand that “flatten the curve”, “slow the spread”, and “wait until a vaccine” all by definition mean stretching this out? Lockdowns do not eradicate viruses, they only delay the inevitable. As soon as the lockdown ends the virus spreads. > If our goal was speed, then this whole pandemic could have been over in a few weeks if we just let it spread through the population, while shielding the elderly and vulnerable of course. The entire point of “flattening the curve” was to drag this out. Slowing the spread and waiting for a vaccine all prolong and delay. > Anyone who thinks lockdowns could have eradicated the virus from every corner of the planet is either lying, ignorant, or insane. Even countries that were praised for keeping out the virus are now suffering new outbreaks. https://redd.it/jfmby8 https://redd.it/jfmby8
- ericb 6y ago
  > Even countries that were praised for keeping out the virus are now suffering new outbreaks. New Zealand? South Korea? There's no comparison to the US.
- lefrenchy 6y ago
  I never said lockdowns would eradicate the pandemic, nor do I solely blame the populace. I actually think governments are the problem and we should have way more incisive responses, both economical and social, from our governments. My entire point is that with the extremely large case numbers in Europe and the US (and to some degree the lack of adherence to guidelines) there isn’t, in my view, an obvious alternative to lockdowns as a means to slow the spread and reduce harm.

bandana 6y ago

I think that issue would have deserved a national debate and a referendum. Debating the pros and cons on TV and radio and letting the population decide for once - how many people did or didn't want a lockdown ?