21 ms·

One has to wonder what legal frauds, asset grabs, and impersonations have transpired that were never discovered. Some perspective on this is the story of Alves

by mshumi 6y ago

One has to wonder what legal frauds, asset grabs, and impersonations have transpired that were never discovered. Some perspective on this is the story of Alves dos Reis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alves_dos_Reis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alves_dos_Reis) who in 1924 stole ~1% of Portugal's GDP in bank notes printed under forged orders. The scheme may have never been uncovered had Reis succeeded in maintaining a controlling interest in the Bank of Portugal and eliminated the paper trail.

hobbes78 6y ago
There's a TV series watchable on-line about him. Only in Portuguese, though... https://arquivos.rtp.pt/programas/alves-dos-reis/ https://arquivos.rtp.pt/programas/alves-dos-reis/
- airstrike 6y ago
  Obrigado!
  - SllX 6y ago
    This is Portuguese for Thanks? Off topic, but reading it I just noticed it sounds an awful lot like ありがとう (“arigatou” as in “domo arigatou Mr. Roboto”). I think there’s an etymology lesson in this, although I’m not sure which way it goes, probably Portuguese -> Japanese via Nagasaki.
    - brigandish 6y ago
      It's a well known theory but it's most likely false[1], though there are several words imported to Japan via Portuguese that have long remained, such as the word for England, イギリス, which comes from the Portuguese for English (people), Ingles, which drives me a bit potty as it's used now to refer to the whole of the UK and I have trouble trying to distinguish England from Scotland et al when speaking with Japanese people. Ironically, "Japan" is from an old Chinese word for Japan that was then imported to Europe… by those dastardly misnomerists of countries, the Portuguese! [1] https://japanese.stackexchange.com/a/5481/10723 https://japanese.stackexchange.com/a/5481/10723
      - jacobush 6y ago
        In Sweden we often use "England" for the UK. But I always feel a little guilty when doing it.
    - tsimionescu 6y ago
      You shouldn't usually try to guess etymology based on superficial phonetic similarity, especially for such a common word. It is exceedingly unlikely that a country would adopt a language would just adopt a word for giving thanks (though there are exceptions). Just for some fun of even greater coincidences between Japan and a Romance language, there are two almost identical words in Japanese and Romanian that have no etymological relationship: "sat" / "里" ("sa to") meaning village in both languages; and "baba" / "婆" ("ba ba") a derogatory term for an old woman in both languages ("hag").
    - tremon 6y ago
      It's actually related to the English phrase "much obliged!" -- from the Latin obligare, participle obligatus, meaning to indebt (both morally and fiscally). https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/obligo#Descendants https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/obligo#Descendants
doublekill 6y ago
Having someone else do your prison time was fairly common. Now with more cooperation between organizations and improved biometrics it has dropped. Different people would be arrested, show up to court, or enter the prison. Impossible for organizations downstream to detect or assume a switch had happened.
- drpgq 6y ago
  Jeez I’m wondering what the going price would be for that today.
  - warent 6y ago
    Probably more of a price in terms of favors and relationships than money. e.g. If a mob could somehow bust you out then you belong to them for some percent of the prison time. Just a guess though.
    - eru 6y ago
      Do you mean busting out as in a violent prison break, or having the right connections and bribes and intimidation behind the scenes?
  - kbenson 6y ago
    I've seen reports that it's somewhat common for the rich in China[1], so there might be some info on what it costs there, and maybe some extrapolation could be made. Either the "serve prison in lieu of me" or "say you were the one that committed the crime" version. There are weird perverse incentives at play in some of the laws of criminal justice system in China.[2] 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4339051 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4339051 2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10173395 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10173395 (warning, the linked article describes very disturbing behavior and specific instances)
    - taneq 6y ago
      This reminds me of the classic phrase, “the butler did it”. It took me ages to realise that butlers aren’t naturally villainous, but rather were expected to take the fall for any malfeasance committed by the family.
lqet 6y ago
Here in Germany we had a few cases where persons worked as hospital doctors for a few years without a license or diploma or even any medical training. They usually submitted a fake license to the hospital. There was a spectacular case in the 1990s where a former postal employee named himself "Dr. med. Dr. phil. Clemens Bartholdy" and later worked as a senior physician in a psychiatric hospital, also giving lectures [0] > By chance, a co-worker recognised him on July 10, 1997, forcing him to go into hiding. At that time, an appointment was already set for an interview with Hans Geisler, then Saxony's Minister of State for social affairs, health and family, on the occasion of Postel's appointment to a professorship and to the position of chief of medicine at Saxony's hospital for psychiatry and neurology at Arnsdorf near Dresden. In another case, a former barber worked for 20 years as a doctor, eventually becoming chief physician in a children's hospital [1]. Back in the 2000s there was a case of a medical student who failed her final exams 3 times, and instead of leaving university as she had to, she just continued her studies without the possibility to take any exams. After a few years, she printed a fake license and a fake diploma and secured a job as an assistance doctor in the children's hospital of the Hamburg University Hospital, eventually becoming a respected colleague (she was, after all, actually trained to be a doctor). After a few years, she failed to hand in the original license and her fraud came to light [2]. Last year, a fake anesthesiologist was uncovered in Fritzlar. She had no formal training and had handed in a fake diploma to get the job [3]. No one noticed until last year, at which time she had already accidentally killed 4 people. Given that there are several such cases each year, chances are very high that there are still some fake doctors practising here. We also had the famous Captain of Köpenick [4], an ex-convict who in 1906 put on a uniform, rounded up a few soliders, occupied a city hall in Berlin, arrested several employees, had them transported to the main Berlin police station for interrogation, ordered to block all local telephone calls for an hour, confiscated 4000 marks and disappeared. It took 10 days to arrest him. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gert_Postel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gert_Postel [1] https://www.aerztezeitung.de/Panorama/Hochstapler-im-weissen-Kittel-314145.html https://www.aerztezeitung.de/Panorama/Hochstapler-im-weissen... [2] https://www.welt.de/welt_print/article1142757/Falsche-Kinderaerztin-arbeitet-jahrelang-am-UKE.html https://www.welt.de/welt_print/article1142757/Falsche-Kinder... [3] https://www.fr.de/hessen/hessen-drei-falsche-aerzte-einem-jahr-fehler-system-zr-13195416.html https://www.fr.de/hessen/hessen-drei-falsche-aerzte-einem-ja... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Voigt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Voigt
ABCLAW 6y ago
Part of my practice is financial fraud investigation. >One has to wonder what legal frauds, asset grabs, and impersonations have transpired that were never discovered. A lot. More than you'd expect. And by people and organizations you wouldn't expect. However, most people are objectively terrible at performing fraud. The things that ultimately lead to people being caught are so simple.
- sciurus 6y ago
  What are the types of mistakes that commonly lead to people being caught? I'm asking, uh, for a friend. :-)
  - coldtea 6y ago
    Pretending to be asking for a friend on a public forum is a common one...
    - manwithaplan 6y ago
      Yeah, asking on a public forum is how they got altoid (Ross Ulbricht).
- sokoloff 6y ago
  I wonder how many people get away with fraud because so many other people are so bad at it. Perhaps being just better than terrible is enough to not be found out because things are generally as they seem.
  - eru 6y ago
    Some people are caught for their perfect crimes, because they can't keep themselves from bragging about them in the pub. (And I can see the temptation.)
- m463 6y ago
  And I would imagine that's a self-selecting population you're working with.

by mshumi 6y ago

hobbes78 6y ago

There's a TV series watchable on-line about him. Only in Portuguese, though... https://arquivos.rtp.pt/programas/alves-dos-reis/ https://arquivos.rtp.pt/programas/alves-dos-reis/

airstrike 6y ago
Obrigado!
- SllX 6y ago
  This is Portuguese for Thanks? Off topic, but reading it I just noticed it sounds an awful lot like ありがとう (“arigatou” as in “domo arigatou Mr. Roboto”). I think there’s an etymology lesson in this, although I’m not sure which way it goes, probably Portuguese -> Japanese via Nagasaki.
  - brigandish 6y ago
    It's a well known theory but it's most likely false[1], though there are several words imported to Japan via Portuguese that have long remained, such as the word for England, イギリス, which comes from the Portuguese for English (people), Ingles, which drives me a bit potty as it's used now to refer to the whole of the UK and I have trouble trying to distinguish England from Scotland et al when speaking with Japanese people. Ironically, "Japan" is from an old Chinese word for Japan that was then imported to Europe… by those dastardly misnomerists of countries, the Portuguese! [1] https://japanese.stackexchange.com/a/5481/10723 https://japanese.stackexchange.com/a/5481/10723
    - jacobush 6y ago
      In Sweden we often use "England" for the UK. But I always feel a little guilty when doing it.
  - tsimionescu 6y ago
    You shouldn't usually try to guess etymology based on superficial phonetic similarity, especially for such a common word. It is exceedingly unlikely that a country would adopt a language would just adopt a word for giving thanks (though there are exceptions). Just for some fun of even greater coincidences between Japan and a Romance language, there are two almost identical words in Japanese and Romanian that have no etymological relationship: "sat" / "里" ("sa to") meaning village in both languages; and "baba" / "婆" ("ba ba") a derogatory term for an old woman in both languages ("hag").
  - tremon 6y ago
    It's actually related to the English phrase "much obliged!" -- from the Latin obligare, participle obligatus, meaning to indebt (both morally and fiscally). https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/obligo#Descendants https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/obligo#Descendants

doublekill 6y ago

Having someone else do your prison time was fairly common. Now with more cooperation between organizations and improved biometrics it has dropped. Different people would be arrested, show up to court, or enter the prison. Impossible for organizations downstream to detect or assume a switch had happened.

drpgq 6y ago
Jeez I’m wondering what the going price would be for that today.
- warent 6y ago
  Probably more of a price in terms of favors and relationships than money. e.g. If a mob could somehow bust you out then you belong to them for some percent of the prison time. Just a guess though.
  - eru 6y ago
    Do you mean busting out as in a violent prison break, or having the right connections and bribes and intimidation behind the scenes?
- kbenson 6y ago
  I've seen reports that it's somewhat common for the rich in China[1], so there might be some info on what it costs there, and maybe some extrapolation could be made. Either the "serve prison in lieu of me" or "say you were the one that committed the crime" version. There are weird perverse incentives at play in some of the laws of criminal justice system in China.[2] 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4339051 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4339051 2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10173395 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10173395 (warning, the linked article describes very disturbing behavior and specific instances)
  - taneq 6y ago
    This reminds me of the classic phrase, “the butler did it”. It took me ages to realise that butlers aren’t naturally villainous, but rather were expected to take the fall for any malfeasance committed by the family.

lqet 6y ago

Here in Germany we had a few cases where persons worked as hospital doctors for a few years without a license or diploma or even any medical training. They usually submitted a fake license to the hospital. There was a spectacular case in the 1990s where a former postal employee named himself "Dr. med. Dr. phil. Clemens Bartholdy" and later worked as a senior physician in a psychiatric hospital, also giving lectures [0] > By chance, a co-worker recognised him on July 10, 1997, forcing him to go into hiding. At that time, an appointment was already set for an interview with Hans Geisler, then Saxony's Minister of State for social affairs, health and family, on the occasion of Postel's appointment to a professorship and to the position of chief of medicine at Saxony's hospital for psychiatry and neurology at Arnsdorf near Dresden. In another case, a former barber worked for 20 years as a doctor, eventually becoming chief physician in a children's hospital [1]. Back in the 2000s there was a case of a medical student who failed her final exams 3 times, and instead of leaving university as she had to, she just continued her studies without the possibility to take any exams. After a few years, she printed a fake license and a fake diploma and secured a job as an assistance doctor in the children's hospital of the Hamburg University Hospital, eventually becoming a respected colleague (she was, after all, actually trained to be a doctor). After a few years, she failed to hand in the original license and her fraud came to light [2]. Last year, a fake anesthesiologist was uncovered in Fritzlar. She had no formal training and had handed in a fake diploma to get the job [3]. No one noticed until last year, at which time she had already accidentally killed 4 people. Given that there are several such cases each year, chances are very high that there are still some fake doctors practising here. We also had the famous Captain of Köpenick [4], an ex-convict who in 1906 put on a uniform, rounded up a few soliders, occupied a city hall in Berlin, arrested several employees, had them transported to the main Berlin police station for interrogation, ordered to block all local telephone calls for an hour, confiscated 4000 marks and disappeared. It took 10 days to arrest him. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gert_Postel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gert_Postel [1] https://www.aerztezeitung.de/Panorama/Hochstapler-im-weissen-Kittel-314145.html https://www.aerztezeitung.de/Panorama/Hochstapler-im-weissen... [2] https://www.welt.de/welt_print/article1142757/Falsche-Kinderaerztin-arbeitet-jahrelang-am-UKE.html https://www.welt.de/welt_print/article1142757/Falsche-Kinder... [3] https://www.fr.de/hessen/hessen-drei-falsche-aerzte-einem-jahr-fehler-system-zr-13195416.html https://www.fr.de/hessen/hessen-drei-falsche-aerzte-einem-ja... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Voigt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Voigt

ABCLAW 6y ago

Part of my practice is financial fraud investigation. >One has to wonder what legal frauds, asset grabs, and impersonations have transpired that were never discovered. A lot. More than you'd expect. And by people and organizations you wouldn't expect. However, most people are objectively terrible at performing fraud. The things that ultimately lead to people being caught are so simple.

sciurus 6y ago
What are the types of mistakes that commonly lead to people being caught? I'm asking, uh, for a friend. :-)
- coldtea 6y ago
  Pretending to be asking for a friend on a public forum is a common one...
  - manwithaplan 6y ago
    Yeah, asking on a public forum is how they got altoid (Ross Ulbricht).
sokoloff 6y ago
I wonder how many people get away with fraud because so many other people are so bad at it. Perhaps being just better than terrible is enough to not be found out because things are generally as they seem.
- eru 6y ago
  Some people are caught for their perfect crimes, because they can't keep themselves from bragging about them in the pub. (And I can see the temptation.)
m463 6y ago
And I would imagine that's a self-selecting population you're working with.