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Capability and Ease of Use: Tesla wins Safety Features: Super Cruise wins Tesla beats Super Cruise in the 2 capability categories. But the Super Cruise wins b

Capability and Ease of Use: Tesla wins Safety Features: Super Cruise wins Tesla beats Super Cruise in the 2 capability categories. But the Super Cruise wins by a large margin in the 3 safety categories. Therefore the Super Cruise wins over all.

Robotbeat 6y ago
There are some problems with Consumer Report’s methodology. They prioritize premapping as if it’s essential to being considered safe (even though relying on premapping for safety is potentially problematic!). The safety assessment is based on CR’s opinion on features, not empirical results. I will say that warning drivers of potentially hazardous and/or uncertain conditions ahead is a good feature of SuperCruise that ought to be emulated widely.
- BoorishBears 6y ago
  That's an extremely misleading slant lol. They call out the premapped data as helping effectively communicate hard situations that are upcoming to the driver. Super Cruise also ends up winning in safety categories that have nothing to do with their mapped data. In no way shape or form do they imply that it's essential for being safe.
  - jiofih 6y ago
    What’s misleading about it? A system that is inherently designed to deal with the unknown, and not rely on hardcoded world info is bound to be much better. And safer.
    - BoorishBears 6y ago
      This is just another misleading claim neither above comment or the article made. Using premapped data doesn't mean the system isn't designed to deal with the unknown... how do you think Super Cruise would be able to function without being able to deal with unknowns? Rather the standard for a working feature that GM has set simply higher than the extremely low standard that Tesla has continously settled for (which is why they originally misapplied Mobileye's LKA sensor suite for Lane Centering and got people killed due to known defects with stationary object handling) Super Cruise requires premapped data as a data point, in abscense of which it reverts to simpler ACC, which it can reliably do. This avoid situations like my Model S test drive in White Plains, NY where the not-a-salesperson had to warn me about a stretch where AP likes to split the difference between the lane and an exit (towards a Jersey barrier) due to poor road conditions. Super Cruise can use mapping data not just to handle something like that, by flag a problem area in advance and let the user take over before the customers become guinea pigs.
      - jiofih 6y ago
        Have you tried Super Cruise under the same poor road conditions? You didn’t counter my claim, in fact you reinforced the fact that SC will rely on pre-mapped data for safety. There is no conclusion to be taken anyway, as Tesla has over 3 billion miles driven on Autopilot with a great safety record, vs a mere 5M for Cadillac (AP’s average was 4.5M miles per accident at some point).
        BoorishBears 6y ago
        Maybe you didn't consider the meaning of your own words: > A system that is inherently designed to deal with the unknown, and not rely on hardcoded world info is bound to be much better. This sentence is strongly implying Super Cruise is _not_ inherently designed to deal with the unknown due to the use of hardcoded data" I counter that claim by pointing out that to function at all? it would have to be able to deal with the unknown, the map isn't going to include the most important dynamic element... other drivers. Those will always be unknowns, so the system can handle unknowns. - And for the record, at the point that AP was at 4.5 Million miles, GM had already places 2 or 3 generations of Mobileye's EyeQ hardware in cars (the same hardware exploited for AP1). It never killed anyone by driving them into a firetruck because GM used it as intended. There's a big focus on X miles per accident with AP vs all other cars, but today a base model Corolla will assist a driver in keeping their lane and alert on a drowsy driver who is being over assisted. What articles like this are showing what many have suspected all along, APs does have safety benefits, but the additional convenience features tacked on are not implemented safely. Therefore cars that take a more conservative approach to convenience, by sacrificing some points with people clamoring to try the bleeding edge on public roadways, while maintaining the safety features end up being safer overall.
blinding-streak 6y ago
Personally I'd like to use the one that is less likely to kill me. So I think a focus on safety is appropriate.
- m463 6y ago
  I think that's probably appropriate for consumer reports. Growing up I read consumer reports and was wondering why the corvette didn't get the best score in the world. I mean, wasn't it the best car to a kid? But the people who buy consumer reports are the kind of folks who would buy the best rated washer and dryer even if they came from two different companies and didn't match. (my parents, for example). And we all managed to survive with clean laundry that was fluffy and dry.
  - ponker 6y ago
    I find Consumer Reports reviews to be very conservative. I bought their top rated washer in a rental apartment where the landlord told me to "buy whatever." It was a decent washer, but nothing too incredible, and got mildewy smells (I know, I could have cleaned it more assiduously). For my next washer when I moved into my own house, I did my own research, and found a washer that 1) stored an entire bottle of detergent and dispensed it automatically 2) ran a venting fan to prevent mildew after a load is done, and keeps it bone dry, 3) Sends me a phone notification when my laundry is done and when it's been sitting for 30 minutes, 4) Can wash a small load and dry it in one shot with the venting fan. Massive upgrade and nowhere on Consumer Reports' radar.
    - totalZero 6y ago
      How many years passed between the two purchases, and what was the ventilation situation in your apartment versus your house? (Congratulations on your home purchase, btw)
      - ponker 6y ago
        3 years. Not much of a difference. But the old washer was always wet for a long time (even with the door left open) and the new one is always dry.
mhh__ 6y ago
I think if Tesla end up getting outplayed on any of these fronts (in the long term) it wouldn't be good for their image. A part of me would like to see it happen (regardless of my opinion of musk I think the company could use knocking down a peg for the sake of consumers)

Robotbeat 6y ago

There are some problems with Consumer Report’s methodology. They prioritize premapping as if it’s essential to being considered safe (even though relying on premapping for safety is potentially problematic!). The safety assessment is based on CR’s opinion on features, not empirical results. I will say that warning drivers of potentially hazardous and/or uncertain conditions ahead is a good feature of SuperCruise that ought to be emulated widely.

BoorishBears 6y ago
That's an extremely misleading slant lol. They call out the premapped data as helping effectively communicate hard situations that are upcoming to the driver. Super Cruise also ends up winning in safety categories that have nothing to do with their mapped data. In no way shape or form do they imply that it's essential for being safe.
- jiofih 6y ago
  What’s misleading about it? A system that is inherently designed to deal with the unknown, and not rely on hardcoded world info is bound to be much better. And safer.
  - BoorishBears 6y ago
    This is just another misleading claim neither above comment or the article made. Using premapped data doesn't mean the system isn't designed to deal with the unknown... how do you think Super Cruise would be able to function without being able to deal with unknowns? Rather the standard for a working feature that GM has set simply higher than the extremely low standard that Tesla has continously settled for (which is why they originally misapplied Mobileye's LKA sensor suite for Lane Centering and got people killed due to known defects with stationary object handling) Super Cruise requires premapped data as a data point, in abscense of which it reverts to simpler ACC, which it can reliably do. This avoid situations like my Model S test drive in White Plains, NY where the not-a-salesperson had to warn me about a stretch where AP likes to split the difference between the lane and an exit (towards a Jersey barrier) due to poor road conditions. Super Cruise can use mapping data not just to handle something like that, by flag a problem area in advance and let the user take over before the customers become guinea pigs.
    - jiofih 6y ago
      Have you tried Super Cruise under the same poor road conditions? You didn’t counter my claim, in fact you reinforced the fact that SC will rely on pre-mapped data for safety. There is no conclusion to be taken anyway, as Tesla has over 3 billion miles driven on Autopilot with a great safety record, vs a mere 5M for Cadillac (AP’s average was 4.5M miles per accident at some point).
      - BoorishBears 6y ago
        Maybe you didn't consider the meaning of your own words: > A system that is inherently designed to deal with the unknown, and not rely on hardcoded world info is bound to be much better. This sentence is strongly implying Super Cruise is _not_ inherently designed to deal with the unknown due to the use of hardcoded data" I counter that claim by pointing out that to function at all? it would have to be able to deal with the unknown, the map isn't going to include the most important dynamic element... other drivers. Those will always be unknowns, so the system can handle unknowns. - And for the record, at the point that AP was at 4.5 Million miles, GM had already places 2 or 3 generations of Mobileye's EyeQ hardware in cars (the same hardware exploited for AP1). It never killed anyone by driving them into a firetruck because GM used it as intended. There's a big focus on X miles per accident with AP vs all other cars, but today a base model Corolla will assist a driver in keeping their lane and alert on a drowsy driver who is being over assisted. What articles like this are showing what many have suspected all along, APs does have safety benefits, but the additional convenience features tacked on are not implemented safely. Therefore cars that take a more conservative approach to convenience, by sacrificing some points with people clamoring to try the bleeding edge on public roadways, while maintaining the safety features end up being safer overall.

blinding-streak 6y ago

Personally I'd like to use the one that is less likely to kill me. So I think a focus on safety is appropriate.

m463 6y ago
I think that's probably appropriate for consumer reports. Growing up I read consumer reports and was wondering why the corvette didn't get the best score in the world. I mean, wasn't it the best car to a kid? But the people who buy consumer reports are the kind of folks who would buy the best rated washer and dryer even if they came from two different companies and didn't match. (my parents, for example). And we all managed to survive with clean laundry that was fluffy and dry.
- ponker 6y ago
  I find Consumer Reports reviews to be very conservative. I bought their top rated washer in a rental apartment where the landlord told me to "buy whatever." It was a decent washer, but nothing too incredible, and got mildewy smells (I know, I could have cleaned it more assiduously). For my next washer when I moved into my own house, I did my own research, and found a washer that 1) stored an entire bottle of detergent and dispensed it automatically 2) ran a venting fan to prevent mildew after a load is done, and keeps it bone dry, 3) Sends me a phone notification when my laundry is done and when it's been sitting for 30 minutes, 4) Can wash a small load and dry it in one shot with the venting fan. Massive upgrade and nowhere on Consumer Reports' radar.
  - totalZero 6y ago
    How many years passed between the two purchases, and what was the ventilation situation in your apartment versus your house? (Congratulations on your home purchase, btw)
    - ponker 6y ago
      3 years. Not much of a difference. But the old washer was always wet for a long time (even with the door left open) and the new one is always dry.

mhh__ 6y ago

I think if Tesla end up getting outplayed on any of these fronts (in the long term) it wouldn't be good for their image. A part of me would like to see it happen (regardless of my opinion of musk I think the company could use knocking down a peg for the sake of consumers)