8 ms·

Guido van Rossum on PyCharm

120 points by rayvega 15y ago

masklinn 15y ago
One part GvR didn't talk about which is top-notch in PyCharm is jumping around in your source code. The searching of symbols and classes (via a search box) is very well done and generally works quite well, which is extremely handy for big codebases, and the contextual jumps (option-click on a class name) to definitions is quite cool as well. And in usual Jetbrains fashion, it comes with a bunch of refactoring though they tend to show their Java origin (extract method can handle multiple return values, but provides no way to set the order of the return tuple whereas you can reorder parameters)
- masklinn 15y ago
  Oh forgot one: PyCharm has a very good support for virtualenvs. It's not quite perfect yet, but you can set a virtualenv interpreter as a project's current interpreter (PyCharm does not automatically recognize that, and that's the major feature lacking) and PyCharm will see the right PYTHONPATH. Very, very handy with `virtualenv --no-site-package` which I tend to use a lot.
cyrus_ 15y ago
Also worth a look is PyDev, the Eclipse Python plug-in. http://pydev.org/ http://pydev.org/
- gitarr 15y ago
  Version 2 just came out and i love it. Also worth a look in my opinion is Aptana Studio 3, which is basically Eclipse with optimized settings and installed plugins for web-development, Python (PyDev), rails, ... One thing I installed on top was a mercurial plugin from the eclipse marketplace, otherwise it's pretty complete for my needs.
  - jules 15y ago
    I am using Python+Aptana+Numpy+Scipy+Matplotlib for doing the programming of some physics research, and it's great.
Humourisok 15y ago
Wing IDE is great.
anateus 15y ago
PyCharm's been the only thing that made me leave Vim for any length of time. It's not about having it all in one place, it's the attention to detail and the little conveniences that are everywhere. Whereas in general purpose editors I'm mostly fine, but eventually stumble on small roadblocks at the edges, with PyCharm every once in a while I stumble on wonderful gems (remote debugging, auto-fixing common issues, etc.)
n_are_q 15y ago
I've read a number of discussions about python editors on stackoverflow and some random blog posts, and netbeans seems to invariably be missing from the discussion. Why is that? I've been using it for the past couple of months and I definitely like it better than Eclipse+PyDev. Am I missing something obvious that's missing relative to these alternatives?
- wladimir 15y ago
  The thing with IDEs is that there are so mind-bogglingly many of them. It's like with web frameworks. In every discussion/comparison at least a few are bound to be missing.
coderdude 15y ago
I haven't heard about PyCharm until now. It looks like a great IDE. I think I'm going to download the trial version and see if I want to throw down the $50 for a single user license. Quite cheap and if it's as good as it looks it will be well worth the money. Check out their getting started video: http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/demos/quick_overview/pycharm_getting_started.html http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/demos/quick_overview/pychar...
scorpion032 15y ago
Wing works the best for me. It is the most "Pythonic IDE" I have come across.
hartror 15y ago
Code completion . . . I am so there!
jmra 15y ago
Bought a license of PyCharm and I'm having exactly the same experience as Guido: love the debugger, prefer emacs+screen+ssh for everything else. I've heard others python guys saying that they have PyCharm for exploring complex repositories and debug things. The problem with emacs is that it's perfect for coding, but not for exploring.
dimmuborgir 15y ago
As a Linux user the biggest turn-off thing for me is the horrible font rendering of Swing applications on Linux. This has kept me from using JetBrains products and Netbeans altogether.
- afsina 15y ago
  it looks pretty decent on Ubuntux64. Can you show an example?
  - afsina 15y ago
    I have an example from the Java IDE IntelliJ Idea from same company (PyCharm uses the same framework): http://img130.imageshack.us/i/screenshot6gw.png/ http://img130.imageshack.us/i/screenshot6gw.png/ Does it look bad?
    - dimmuborgir 15y ago
      That's the maximum I could come up with after trying many suggestions. Still ugly for me. May be my eyes are sensitive but observe w, v and x. They're faded out. Also most letters look choppy for my eyes. I can't stare for long.
- limmeau 15y ago
  Depending on a lot of version numbers, you may have to pass -Dswing.aatext=true -Dawt.useSystemAAFontSettings=on to your JVM. I don't know why the default is "ugly 1990s-style", but those settings made Netbeans usable for me (for long enough to discover I still prefer Eclipse, except for the profiler).
  - gojomo 15y ago
    Trying Oracle's JDK often helps with such things, as well.
  - afsina 15y ago
    AFAIK There is a setting in editor->Appearance->Use Anti Aliased Fonts and, as other commenter said Oracle JRE may have better font rendering than Open JDK.
tectonic 15y ago
I'm a big fan of RubyMine, also made by the same folks... although it has taken a few versions to really get good.
gourneau 15y ago
I won a PyCharm license at PyTexas last year. Before I wond the license I had a bad experience with the beta version. It took almost 9 months using it on and off until I it finally became my IDE of choice. - The Subversion integration is killer. - There is even a tool to apply .diffs. - There is a plugin that gives me VIm key bindings. - The Django integration is nice, including Django templates. - The CSS editor is fantastic. One cool feature is the color referenced in a line is put in the left gutter. - The debugger is very handy. - The quick file navigation bar is a super handy way to jump between files. - The "Go To" for Class , File, and Symbol is a very quicksilver-ish way to navigate your project - As trite as it might sound, the color themes are super easy to change. Which are close to impossible to change with PyDev + Eclipse. - The syntax highlighting helps me catch errors
- heyitsnick 15y ago
  Have you used WingIDE? How does it compare? After shelling out for a $150 license and using it enthusiastically for about 3 months, I found myself moving back to basic text editors. I guess I just found the slowdown and general clunkyness was not offset by the additional toolset. Wondering how pycharm compares.
- rtaycher 15y ago
  Try http://www.eclipsecolorthemes.org/ http://www.eclipsecolorthemes.org/ (note I used it with cdt and had trouble with dark color themes making some elements nearly invisible) but other then that its sorta nice
mikle 15y ago
I'm an avid Komodo IDE user after reviewing all options half a decade ago. Anyone with experience in both IDEs can make a quick comparison?
erez 15y ago
This is kinda the Anti-Gosling and his "Don't use emacs" spiel. (http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/207799/don_t_use_emacs_says_java_father/ http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/207799/don_t_use_ema...) EDIT: That article is really golden. It starts with the silliness about not using emacs, without any clear reason why other than "not abiding to Moore's Law" (whatever that means), he praises NetBeans (as if) but claims "almost nobody bothers to modify its code because of its complexity", then, to top it off, ComputerWorld refers to him in that (and other) articles as "Father of Java", ignoring the quote at the bottom that says "People call me that because it pisses me off."
smogzer 15y ago
I'm starting to use wingware wing IDE. And i got wing working with web2py with code completion, etc. Is pycharm for web2py development better than wing ? Since it is focused on web applications it has potential to be better. Thanks.
- dkersten 15y ago
  I too would like to know this. I recently switched from Django (I was also using Clojure, but switched back to Python for web stuff because nobody around here knows Clojure...) to web2py and love it. I've been using the integrated editor out of lazyness, but will be ramping up my web development effort soon so could do with a good IDE. I've tried and liked WingIDE in the past, but am open to alternatives too.
- gsk 15y ago
  I use both pycharm and Wing IDE for a fairly large project. I find coding python in Wing IDE easier because it is simpler (have a few virtualenvs, Wing IDE easily figures things out and code completion is pretty good). I use Webstorm (JetBrains Web IDE) for UI development and find it a good fit for that purpose.
smortaz 15y ago
PyCharm is awesome. [shameless plug]: if you're using VisualStudio, give http://pytools.codeplex.com http://pytools.codeplex.com a try... free & open source from msft.
mgrouchy 15y ago
I use Vim for essentially everything, what I would kill for is if I could integrate a debugger similar to eclipse pydev, PyCharm or Komodo's. PDB is great, but having to manually type and remember to remove breakpoints can be a pain.
nixarn 15y ago
I'm also a huge fan of PyCharm. Has made all Python devving tons more fun (Django + AppEngine is what I do). Can't recommend it enough, and I've tried PyDev & Komodo wanting to like them.
- mhb 15y ago
  Komodo IDE? What makes PyCharm better?
nek4life 15y ago
In case anyone was interested in buying it JetBrains has a sale going on for 2 more days. (April 30) http://www.jetbrains.com/specials/index.jsp?home_banner http://www.jetbrains.com/specials/index.jsp?home_banner I ended up buying IntelliJ because the python plugin is virtually the same thing although it does lag behind the Pycharm version a wee bit in terms of features. The other major difference is the way projects are started and the feature to open files from the command line is missing in IntelliJ. If you only use Python Pycharm is definitely a more focused product and doesn't have features from other programming languages hanging out in your face in places like the run configurations. Also according to the license matrix on both IntelliJ and Pycharm the personal versions are both for general commercial use. The difference between the commercial and personal licenses mainly seems to be about who is purchasing the software. http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/buy/license-matrix.jsp http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/buy/license-matrix.jsp
mhb 15y ago
How is it at running locally and working with files on a server? Does it find imported files and functions on the server?

120 points by rayvega 15y ago

One part GvR didn't talk about which is top-notch in PyCharm is jumping around in your source code. The searching of symbols and classes (via a search box) is very well done and generally works quite well, which is extremely handy for big codebases, and the contextual jumps (option-click on a class name) to definitions is quite cool as well. And in usual Jetbrains fashion, it comes with a bunch of refactoring though they tend to show their Java origin (extract method can handle multiple return values, but provides no way to set the order of the return tuple whereas you can reorder parameters)

masklinn 15y ago
Oh forgot one: PyCharm has a very good support for virtualenvs. It's not quite perfect yet, but you can set a virtualenv interpreter as a project's current interpreter (PyCharm does not automatically recognize that, and that's the major feature lacking) and PyCharm will see the right PYTHONPATH. Very, very handy with `virtualenv --no-site-package` which I tend to use a lot.

cyrus_ 15y ago

Also worth a look is PyDev, the Eclipse Python plug-in. http://pydev.org/ http://pydev.org/

gitarr 15y ago
Version 2 just came out and i love it. Also worth a look in my opinion is Aptana Studio 3, which is basically Eclipse with optimized settings and installed plugins for web-development, Python (PyDev), rails, ... One thing I installed on top was a mercurial plugin from the eclipse marketplace, otherwise it's pretty complete for my needs.
- jules 15y ago
  I am using Python+Aptana+Numpy+Scipy+Matplotlib for doing the programming of some physics research, and it's great.

Humourisok 15y ago

Wing IDE is great.

anateus 15y ago

PyCharm's been the only thing that made me leave Vim for any length of time. It's not about having it all in one place, it's the attention to detail and the little conveniences that are everywhere. Whereas in general purpose editors I'm mostly fine, but eventually stumble on small roadblocks at the edges, with PyCharm every once in a while I stumble on wonderful gems (remote debugging, auto-fixing common issues, etc.)

n_are_q 15y ago

I've read a number of discussions about python editors on stackoverflow and some random blog posts, and netbeans seems to invariably be missing from the discussion. Why is that? I've been using it for the past couple of months and I definitely like it better than Eclipse+PyDev. Am I missing something obvious that's missing relative to these alternatives?

wladimir 15y ago
The thing with IDEs is that there are so mind-bogglingly many of them. It's like with web frameworks. In every discussion/comparison at least a few are bound to be missing.

coderdude 15y ago

I haven't heard about PyCharm until now. It looks like a great IDE. I think I'm going to download the trial version and see if I want to throw down the $50 for a single user license. Quite cheap and if it's as good as it looks it will be well worth the money. Check out their getting started video: http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/demos/quick_overview/pycharm_getting_started.html http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/demos/quick_overview/pychar...

scorpion032 15y ago

Wing works the best for me. It is the most "Pythonic IDE" I have come across.

hartror 15y ago

Code completion . . . I am so there!

jmra 15y ago

Bought a license of PyCharm and I'm having exactly the same experience as Guido: love the debugger, prefer emacs+screen+ssh for everything else. I've heard others python guys saying that they have PyCharm for exploring complex repositories and debug things. The problem with emacs is that it's perfect for coding, but not for exploring.

dimmuborgir 15y ago

As a Linux user the biggest turn-off thing for me is the horrible font rendering of Swing applications on Linux. This has kept me from using JetBrains products and Netbeans altogether.

afsina 15y ago
it looks pretty decent on Ubuntux64. Can you show an example?
- afsina 15y ago
  I have an example from the Java IDE IntelliJ Idea from same company (PyCharm uses the same framework): http://img130.imageshack.us/i/screenshot6gw.png/ http://img130.imageshack.us/i/screenshot6gw.png/ Does it look bad?
  - dimmuborgir 15y ago
    That's the maximum I could come up with after trying many suggestions. Still ugly for me. May be my eyes are sensitive but observe w, v and x. They're faded out. Also most letters look choppy for my eyes. I can't stare for long.
limmeau 15y ago
Depending on a lot of version numbers, you may have to pass -Dswing.aatext=true -Dawt.useSystemAAFontSettings=on to your JVM. I don't know why the default is "ugly 1990s-style", but those settings made Netbeans usable for me (for long enough to discover I still prefer Eclipse, except for the profiler).
- gojomo 15y ago
  Trying Oracle's JDK often helps with such things, as well.
- afsina 15y ago
  AFAIK There is a setting in editor->Appearance->Use Anti Aliased Fonts and, as other commenter said Oracle JRE may have better font rendering than Open JDK.

tectonic 15y ago

I'm a big fan of RubyMine, also made by the same folks... although it has taken a few versions to really get good.

gourneau 15y ago

I won a PyCharm license at PyTexas last year. Before I wond the license I had a bad experience with the beta version. It took almost 9 months using it on and off until I it finally became my IDE of choice. - The Subversion integration is killer. - There is even a tool to apply .diffs. - There is a plugin that gives me VIm key bindings. - The Django integration is nice, including Django templates. - The CSS editor is fantastic. One cool feature is the color referenced in a line is put in the left gutter. - The debugger is very handy. - The quick file navigation bar is a super handy way to jump between files. - The "Go To" for Class , File, and Symbol is a very quicksilver-ish way to navigate your project - As trite as it might sound, the color themes are super easy to change. Which are close to impossible to change with PyDev + Eclipse. - The syntax highlighting helps me catch errors

heyitsnick 15y ago
Have you used WingIDE? How does it compare? After shelling out for a $150 license and using it enthusiastically for about 3 months, I found myself moving back to basic text editors. I guess I just found the slowdown and general clunkyness was not offset by the additional toolset. Wondering how pycharm compares.
rtaycher 15y ago
Try http://www.eclipsecolorthemes.org/ http://www.eclipsecolorthemes.org/ (note I used it with cdt and had trouble with dark color themes making some elements nearly invisible) but other then that its sorta nice

mikle 15y ago

I'm an avid Komodo IDE user after reviewing all options half a decade ago. Anyone with experience in both IDEs can make a quick comparison?

erez 15y ago

This is kinda the Anti-Gosling and his "Don't use emacs" spiel. (http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/207799/don_t_use_emacs_says_java_father/ http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/207799/don_t_use_ema...) EDIT: That article is really golden. It starts with the silliness about not using emacs, without any clear reason why other than "not abiding to Moore's Law" (whatever that means), he praises NetBeans (as if) but claims "almost nobody bothers to modify its code because of its complexity", then, to top it off, ComputerWorld refers to him in that (and other) articles as "Father of Java", ignoring the quote at the bottom that says "People call me that because it pisses me off."

smogzer 15y ago

I'm starting to use wingware wing IDE. And i got wing working with web2py with code completion, etc. Is pycharm for web2py development better than wing ? Since it is focused on web applications it has potential to be better. Thanks.

dkersten 15y ago
I too would like to know this. I recently switched from Django (I was also using Clojure, but switched back to Python for web stuff because nobody around here knows Clojure...) to web2py and love it. I've been using the integrated editor out of lazyness, but will be ramping up my web development effort soon so could do with a good IDE. I've tried and liked WingIDE in the past, but am open to alternatives too.
gsk 15y ago
I use both pycharm and Wing IDE for a fairly large project. I find coding python in Wing IDE easier because it is simpler (have a few virtualenvs, Wing IDE easily figures things out and code completion is pretty good). I use Webstorm (JetBrains Web IDE) for UI development and find it a good fit for that purpose.

smortaz 15y ago

PyCharm is awesome. [shameless plug]: if you're using VisualStudio, give http://pytools.codeplex.com http://pytools.codeplex.com a try... free & open source from msft.

mgrouchy 15y ago

I use Vim for essentially everything, what I would kill for is if I could integrate a debugger similar to eclipse pydev, PyCharm or Komodo's. PDB is great, but having to manually type and remember to remove breakpoints can be a pain.

nixarn 15y ago

I'm also a huge fan of PyCharm. Has made all Python devving tons more fun (Django + AppEngine is what I do). Can't recommend it enough, and I've tried PyDev & Komodo wanting to like them.

mhb 15y ago
Komodo IDE? What makes PyCharm better?

nek4life 15y ago

In case anyone was interested in buying it JetBrains has a sale going on for 2 more days. (April 30) http://www.jetbrains.com/specials/index.jsp?home_banner http://www.jetbrains.com/specials/index.jsp?home_banner I ended up buying IntelliJ because the python plugin is virtually the same thing although it does lag behind the Pycharm version a wee bit in terms of features. The other major difference is the way projects are started and the feature to open files from the command line is missing in IntelliJ. If you only use Python Pycharm is definitely a more focused product and doesn't have features from other programming languages hanging out in your face in places like the run configurations. Also according to the license matrix on both IntelliJ and Pycharm the personal versions are both for general commercial use. The difference between the commercial and personal licenses mainly seems to be about who is purchasing the software. http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/buy/license-matrix.jsp http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/buy/license-matrix.jsp

mhb 15y ago

How is it at running locally and working with files on a server? Does it find imported files and functions on the server?