6 ms·

> I can understand why organisations like Amazon would set up these bureaucratic support "walls" and/or outsource all support to a Filipino call centre staffed

> I can understand why organisations like Amazon would set up these bureaucratic support "walls" and/or outsource all support to a Filipino call centre staffed by people that don't even know what Amazon is. The systems are designed to make getting support hard, because most people contacting consumer support literally don't even have a problem that good support staff could solve. That doesn't make sense. You are in favour of systemic obfuscation and low quality support to discourage people who don't have problems from taking up the time of support staff? Even though the barriers make life hell for people with legitimate problems like the guy whose $1.5m inventory was destroyed? Wouldn't it be better to handle both types of cases properly? Instead of spending "hours with mentally ill people" (your terminology), why not perfect the art of triage and funnel people without problems appropriately? If that's an unrealistic expectation, could you provide more detail about how it is unavoidable to spend "hours with mentally ill people"? You already provided details, but I can't see how you end up losing so many hours! There are techniques for handling these cases, my friend. Your oscilloscope product looks fantastic, and the price and terms you sell it for tells me you are an interesting and valuable human being. I'm just pressing you about the other side of your story because I feel there might be a better way to handle the difficult cases that you somehow aren't aware of because you are too fundamentally helpful and an undiscriminatingly good guy. Or something.

varispeed 6y ago
I suspect that you are assuming that people in general think rationally and behave according to set scenarios. Unfortunately that is not a reality. If you were able to invent such effective system of triaging and funneling, I think you would become a billionaire in no time.
AussieWog93 6y ago
>That doesn't make sense. You are in favour of systemic obfuscation and low quality support to discourage people who don't have problems from taking up the time of support staff? Even though the barriers make life hell for people with legitimate problems like the guy whose $1.5m inventory was destroyed? I'm never said I'm personally in favour of that approach, I just saw a lot of comments talking about how terrible it is without any consideration of why certain companies might not want to make support accessible. As you said, an ideal solution would redirect people who don't need customer support elsewhere, but I couldn't imagine this is easy for an organisation the size of Amazon. I hope they can work out a better balance in future. >If that's an unrealistic expectation, could you provide more detail about how it is unavoidable to spend "hours with mentally ill people"? Just to clarify, I'm not talking about garden-variety depression/anxiety but people with serious issues that lead to them being completely isolated from regular society. Honestly, we try to avoid dealing with them altogether. If someone sends us 12 messages in a row at 4am asking for information about a product, we don't respond in the morning. I have done in the past and learned the hard way that it is a bad idea. Of course, this is not possible for a business like Amazon with tickets and phone support.
- newsclues 6y ago
  I worked AppleCare tech support and there were people who would call in to talk to people or troll, perhaps they were ill, but they would call repeatedly and there problems were largely made up. Eventually they become known and are handled separately because they would fake problems and drive people insane. Some people should be banned from support.
  - dd36 6y ago
    You should try being a large landlord. To some people, you become their only social interaction.
    - londons_explore 6y ago
      "We charge $15 per phone call after the first 5 per tenancy".
pantalaimon 6y ago
> why not perfect the art of triage and funnel people without problems appropriately? The joys of having a quasi-monopoly. Amazon does't need be be any better - they have all the customers, so merchants have to put up with that if they want access.
oblio 6y ago
> Instead of spending "hours with mentally ill people" (your terminology), why not perfect the art of triage and funnel people without problems appropriately? Because some problems are NP complete.
- londons_explore 6y ago
  "Hello...? Is that Gmail? I was just calling to let you know that I don't need Uncle Franks email anymore. He comes up whenever I press "F" for frank, but he's dead now so it doesn't make sense. Auntie Anna sees the same, so it must be a problem with your computers or something. Whenever I type Frank in on the Chrome he pops up on everything!"
  - account42 6y ago
    And? Either you tell the user to remove Frank from the address book or if that is not possible (ie, autocompletes use addresses from all emails and there is no way to exclude addresses) and then you have an actual bug report.

varispeed 6y ago

I suspect that you are assuming that people in general think rationally and behave according to set scenarios. Unfortunately that is not a reality. If you were able to invent such effective system of triaging and funneling, I think you would become a billionaire in no time.

AussieWog93 6y ago

>That doesn't make sense. You are in favour of systemic obfuscation and low quality support to discourage people who don't have problems from taking up the time of support staff? Even though the barriers make life hell for people with legitimate problems like the guy whose $1.5m inventory was destroyed? I'm never said I'm personally in favour of that approach, I just saw a lot of comments talking about how terrible it is without any consideration of why certain companies might not want to make support accessible. As you said, an ideal solution would redirect people who don't need customer support elsewhere, but I couldn't imagine this is easy for an organisation the size of Amazon. I hope they can work out a better balance in future. >If that's an unrealistic expectation, could you provide more detail about how it is unavoidable to spend "hours with mentally ill people"? Just to clarify, I'm not talking about garden-variety depression/anxiety but people with serious issues that lead to them being completely isolated from regular society. Honestly, we try to avoid dealing with them altogether. If someone sends us 12 messages in a row at 4am asking for information about a product, we don't respond in the morning. I have done in the past and learned the hard way that it is a bad idea. Of course, this is not possible for a business like Amazon with tickets and phone support.

newsclues 6y ago
I worked AppleCare tech support and there were people who would call in to talk to people or troll, perhaps they were ill, but they would call repeatedly and there problems were largely made up. Eventually they become known and are handled separately because they would fake problems and drive people insane. Some people should be banned from support.
- dd36 6y ago
  You should try being a large landlord. To some people, you become their only social interaction.
  - londons_explore 6y ago
    "We charge $15 per phone call after the first 5 per tenancy".

pantalaimon 6y ago

> why not perfect the art of triage and funnel people without problems appropriately? The joys of having a quasi-monopoly. Amazon does't need be be any better - they have all the customers, so merchants have to put up with that if they want access.

oblio 6y ago

> Instead of spending "hours with mentally ill people" (your terminology), why not perfect the art of triage and funnel people without problems appropriately? Because some problems are NP complete.

londons_explore 6y ago
"Hello...? Is that Gmail? I was just calling to let you know that I don't need Uncle Franks email anymore. He comes up whenever I press "F" for frank, but he's dead now so it doesn't make sense. Auntie Anna sees the same, so it must be a problem with your computers or something. Whenever I type Frank in on the Chrome he pops up on everything!"
- account42 6y ago
  And? Either you tell the user to remove Frank from the address book or if that is not possible (ie, autocompletes use addresses from all emails and there is no way to exclude addresses) and then you have an actual bug report.