6 ms·

I suppose there's even a fourth option: People who are more likely to be hospitalized are also more likely to be deficient in vitamin D. The control group see

I suppose there's even a fourth option: People who are more likely to be hospitalized are also more likely to be deficient in vitamin D. The control group seemed to be a healthy population sample, but hospitals are not a pool of healthy people. How about a hospital sample instead of a population sample?

nwah1 6y ago
Maybe Vitamin D reduces all-cause hospitalization
- andi999 6y ago
  Maybe beeing healthy and able to go outdoors reduces all-cause hospitalization (apart from accidents)
- ganafagol 6y ago
  Or maybe low vitamin D levels are a symptom of the same "root cause" that leads to higher risk for Covid-19 and just supplementing vitamin D does not do anything to lower the latter. Those vitamin D level statistics have been floating around for months. What's missing is a placebo-controlled study to see whether supplementation would make a difference. But that involves more than just clicking a bit of statistics.
  - scottlocklin 6y ago
    That study is absolutely not missing, and it says exactly what you'd expect it to[0]. It's even being tested as an active treatment[1]. In fact, that study was also done with Influenza[2] and other lung borne ailments as well. It pretty obviously works, has tremendous explanatory power in the observed patterns of disease, and the fact that no government has sanctioned its use or its mass production ... well, I guess modernity kind of sucks. Better to pimp useless expensive garbage pharma companies can turn a profit on. [0]https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04536298 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04536298 [1] https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04385940 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04385940 [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4463890/#:~:text=In%20those%20patients%20who%20do,in%2048%20to%2072%20hours https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4463890/#:~:tex....
    - ganafagol 6y ago
      Excellent, thank you. Unfortunately, [0] and [1] are still ongoing and [2] reads like a blog post of somebody ranting about a statistical error, followed by some anecdotal evidence and the demand for an actual study. There could still be something there, but summarizing all of that as "quite obviously works" is stretching it.
Johnny555 6y ago
Or maybe a 5th option: "People who are staying socially isolated spend less time in the sun, so the population has become more vitamin D deficient". I know that I'm spending less time outdoors than I used to -- no more outdoor picnics/parties, no beach time this summer, I'm not even biking as much as I used to.
- tgdual 6y ago
  Or a 6th option: Over 80% of people have Vitamin D deficiency, and the incoming Covid-19 patient population was not different in this regard.
  - Johnny555 6y ago
    I don't know of any post-COVID studies, but most studies pre-COVID show around 40% of the population being deficient both in the USA and Europe.
    - cbanek 6y ago
      This, and as someone who recently found out that they have a severe vitamin D deficiency, I was surprised to know that it's not something normally checked for in yearly blood tests.
      - lucas_membrane 6y ago
        Check the videos on Dr John Campbell's (PhD nurse educator in the UK) web site. The UK national health service has good medical records that can be cross-referenced and cross-linked every which way. Someone examined the historical records, found a reasonably large number of persons who had vitamin D levels checked before the pandemic, and checked those statistics vs the Covid-19 experience of the same people. (Imagine living in a country where that could happen.) IIRC, this did find some benefits wrt COVID-19 of not having a very low vitamin D level.
  - drited 6y ago
    This isn't really a 7th option because it overlaps with some of the previously mentioned ones, but perhaps individuals who don't supplement with vitamin D are more likely to catch Covid-19 because they also don't take other precautions like wearing masks. Anecdotally it seems those I know who are most concerned about Covid-19 know all about the possible link with vitamin D and are taking supplements while also being careful by wearing masks, sanitising etc.

nwah1 6y ago

Maybe Vitamin D reduces all-cause hospitalization

andi999 6y ago
Maybe beeing healthy and able to go outdoors reduces all-cause hospitalization (apart from accidents)
ganafagol 6y ago
Or maybe low vitamin D levels are a symptom of the same "root cause" that leads to higher risk for Covid-19 and just supplementing vitamin D does not do anything to lower the latter. Those vitamin D level statistics have been floating around for months. What's missing is a placebo-controlled study to see whether supplementation would make a difference. But that involves more than just clicking a bit of statistics.
- scottlocklin 6y ago
  That study is absolutely not missing, and it says exactly what you'd expect it to[0]. It's even being tested as an active treatment[1]. In fact, that study was also done with Influenza[2] and other lung borne ailments as well. It pretty obviously works, has tremendous explanatory power in the observed patterns of disease, and the fact that no government has sanctioned its use or its mass production ... well, I guess modernity kind of sucks. Better to pimp useless expensive garbage pharma companies can turn a profit on. [0]https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04536298 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04536298 [1] https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04385940 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04385940 [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4463890/#:~:text=In%20those%20patients%20who%20do,in%2048%20to%2072%20hours https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4463890/#:~:tex....
  - ganafagol 6y ago
    Excellent, thank you. Unfortunately, [0] and [1] are still ongoing and [2] reads like a blog post of somebody ranting about a statistical error, followed by some anecdotal evidence and the demand for an actual study. There could still be something there, but summarizing all of that as "quite obviously works" is stretching it.

Johnny555 6y ago

Or maybe a 5th option: "People who are staying socially isolated spend less time in the sun, so the population has become more vitamin D deficient". I know that I'm spending less time outdoors than I used to -- no more outdoor picnics/parties, no beach time this summer, I'm not even biking as much as I used to.

tgdual 6y ago
Or a 6th option: Over 80% of people have Vitamin D deficiency, and the incoming Covid-19 patient population was not different in this regard.
- Johnny555 6y ago
  I don't know of any post-COVID studies, but most studies pre-COVID show around 40% of the population being deficient both in the USA and Europe.
  - cbanek 6y ago
    This, and as someone who recently found out that they have a severe vitamin D deficiency, I was surprised to know that it's not something normally checked for in yearly blood tests.
    - lucas_membrane 6y ago
      Check the videos on Dr John Campbell's (PhD nurse educator in the UK) web site. The UK national health service has good medical records that can be cross-referenced and cross-linked every which way. Someone examined the historical records, found a reasonably large number of persons who had vitamin D levels checked before the pandemic, and checked those statistics vs the Covid-19 experience of the same people. (Imagine living in a country where that could happen.) IIRC, this did find some benefits wrt COVID-19 of not having a very low vitamin D level.
- drited 6y ago
  This isn't really a 7th option because it overlaps with some of the previously mentioned ones, but perhaps individuals who don't supplement with vitamin D are more likely to catch Covid-19 because they also don't take other precautions like wearing masks. Anecdotally it seems those I know who are most concerned about Covid-19 know all about the possible link with vitamin D and are taking supplements while also being careful by wearing masks, sanitising etc.